Tractor charging

[TiltyShaun]

I will have nothing to read when he gets this sorted!!

 

[Steve]

I don’t want to complicate things more than they need to be but I didn’t think the little Fords even had a ignition relay , are you sure it’s not a relay for the cold start heater plug.

 

[Vinpetrol]

I don’t want to complicate things more than they need to be but I didn’t think the little Fords even had a ignition relay , are you sure it’s not a relay for the cold start heater plug.

That’s item 14 thermostart and it’s fed from terminal 3 on the ignition brown and red wire so it doesn’t get a feed from that relay

 

[Vinpetrol]

I will have nothing to read when he gets this sorted!!

And my life will return to normality ! It’s driving me feckin mad every night I’ve been at it

 

[Steve]

That’s item 14 thermostart and it’s fed from terminal 3 on the ignition brown and red wire so it doesn’t get a feed from that relay

I am struggling to see what the relay would be switching on , no electric fuel pump no fuel shut off solenoid etc.

 

[V8Druid]

I am struggling to see what the relay would be switching on , no electric fuel pump no fuel shut off solenoid etc.

some vehicles have a starter solenoid relay- some don't -- very familiar with their concept as SD1s had a relay operating the starter solenoid.
some pre-engage starter's solenoids draw a fair current, over coming the return spring on the dog engaging lever.
SD,s had a 4mm wire feeding the solenoid, from the relay .. never measured their draw, but must've been substantial to warrant a 4mm feed cable

 

[Vinpetrol]

I’ve made a breakthrough !
Found a broken wire that was the brown feeding the relay .
The relay now powers up !
The alternator brown and yellow wire is now on the small spade as suggested and working the charge light properly . It delivers earth when ignition on and 12v + when engine running.
The small black wire is connected to the starter , this is delivering 12v + to the alternator (I’m assuming bypassing the battery temp sensor )
The alternator is not charging . I’m getting the same voltage as the battery when alternator is running as when it is stopped . The black wire is still connected to the same terminal .
Should I remove the brown wire from B+ terminal and try it on one of the spades below the brown and yellow ?
The alternator is scurling since the wiring has been changed so it may be trying to do something but just be fecked !
What do you think ?

 

[Steve]

some vehicles have a starter solenoid relay- some don't -- very familiar with their concept as SD1s had a relay operating the starter solenoid.
some pre-engage starter's solenoids draw a fair current, over coming the return spring on the dog engaging lever.
SD,s had a 4mm wire feeding the solenoid, from the relay .. never measured their draw, but must've been substantial to warrant a 4mm feed cable

Yes but in this case it is an ignition on relay rather than a starter exciter relay.

 

[V8Druid]

I’ve made a breakthrough !
Found a broken wire that was the brown feeding the relay .
The relay now powers up !
The alternator brown and yellow wire is now on the small spade as suggested and working the charge light properly . It delivers earth when ignition on and 12v + when engine running.
The small black wire is connected to the starter , this is delivering 12v + to the alternator (I’m assuming bypassing the battery temp sensor )
The alternator is not charging . I’m getting the same voltage as the battery when alternator is running as when it is stopped . The black wire is still connected to the same terminal .
Should I remove the brown wire from B+ terminal and try it on one of the spades below the brown and yellow ?
The alternator is scurling since the wiring has been changed so it may be trying to do something but just be fecked !
What do you think ?

??? Where abouts???? pull it off and insulate it - then see if the alternator charges

B+ and the two 10mm spades should all be connected in parallel Vin and putting out circa 14v with the alternator at 12-1500 rpm

 

[Steve]

I’ve made a breakthrough !
Found a broken wire that was the brown feeding the relay .
The relay now powers up !
The alternator brown and yellow wire is now on the small spade as suggested and working the charge light properly . It delivers earth when ignition on and 12v + when engine running.
The small black wire is connected to the starter , this is delivering 12v + to the alternator (I’m assuming bypassing the battery temp sensor )
The alternator is not charging . I’m getting the same voltage as the battery when alternator is running as when it is stopped . The black wire is still connected to the same terminal .
Should I remove the brown wire from B+ terminal and try it on one of the spades below the brown and yellow ?
The alternator is scurling since the wiring has been changed so it may be trying to do something but just be fecked !
What do you think ?

So now the light works as in comes on with ignition but stays on with engine running on say a fast tick over around 1000 rpm?

 

[V8Druid]

So now the light works as in comes on with ignition but stays on with engine running on say a fast tick over around 1000 rpm?

you mean off??

 

[V8Druid]

I’ve made a breakthrough !
Found a broken wire that was the brown feeding the relay .
The relay now powers up !
The alternator brown and yellow wire is now on the small spade as suggested and working the charge light properly . It delivers earth when ignition on and 12v + when engine running.
The small black wire is connected to the starter , this is delivering 12v + to the alternator (I’m assuming bypassing the battery temp sensor )
The alternator is not charging . I’m getting the same voltage as the battery when alternator is running as when it is stopped . The black wire is still connected to the same terminal .
Should I remove the brown wire from B+ terminal and try it on one of the spades below the brown and yellow ?
The alternator is scurling since the wiring has been changed so it may be trying to do something but just be fecked !
What do you think ?

where is the power coming from on the broken / repaired brown? does it power up with the ign off or in position 1?

what's feeding pin 30 where does the feed go from 87 ? fuses??

 

[Steve]

you mean off??

Well I was meaning on as Vin is saying it isn’t charging.

 

[Gecko]

The alternator brown and yellow wire is now on the small spade as suggested and working the charge light properly . It delivers earth when ignition on and 12v + when engine running.

Great news.
The fact the light goes out is very promising.
When 10 (the ignition switch) closes, power is applied to 9 (the lamp) and in turn puts power on one end of the field winding 4.
Inside the alternator, there are nine diodes (six big (red) and three small (green)). As the alternator spins generating voltage, the small (green) diodes turn a small amount of power from AC to DC and that's what causes the indicator lamp to go out. Obviously all of that is working.
Given the facts above, if you are still not getting a charge output, the fault must be with one (some) of: the red power diodes, the regulator or the temp compensator.
I've never played with a temp compensator, so can only guess how it behaves - the books say it should read about 200 Ohms, but I haven't seen anything saying is the resistance should increase or decrease as the temp rises.
So we will test the diodes first.
Disconnect the big brown wire from B+ (and tape it so it can't short out). Then set your multimeter to Diode test position.
Put the black test lead to the chassis and the red to the B+ terminal - all being well, it should read about 1.2V

The ford forums all say a failed temp compensator will lead to no output, so that's looking like the problem given yours seems to be AWOL. Check the diodes first as it's an easy test and may alter the decision what to do next. If the diodes test fine, hunt down a compensator seems to make the most sense, but if blown, rather than buying a compesator and repairing the alternator, I'd put the money toward a simpler alternator that doesn't use the compensator.

 

[Vinpetrol]

??? Where abouts???? pull it off and insulate it - then see if the alternator charges

B+ and the two 10mm spades should all be connected in parallel Vin and putting out circa 14v with the alternator at 12-1500 rpm

Where it was originally connected in the photos. I did have it disconected and this made no difference to the charge .
If they are all connected then it should be charging so I’m thinking it must be goosed ?

 

[Vinpetrol]

So now the light works as in comes on with ignition but stays on with engine running on say a fast tick over around 1000 rpm?

No it goes out when engine is running at any revs . The alternator puts 12v out of the brown and yellow wire when engine is running and then it goes to negative when it isn’t running

 

[Vinpetrol]

Great news.
The fact the light goes out is very promising.
When 10 (the ignition switch) closes, power is applied to 9 (the lamp) and in turn puts power on one end of the field winding 4.
Inside the alternator, there are nine diodes (six big (red) and three small (green)). As the alternator spins generating voltage, the small (green) diodes turn a small amount of power from AC to DC and that's what causes the indicator lamp to go out. Obviously all of that is working.
Given the facts above, if you are still not getting a charge output, the fault must be with one (some) of: the red power diodes, the regulator or the temp compensator.
I've never played with a temp compensator, so can only guess how it behaves - the books say it should read about 200 Ohms, but I haven't seen anything saying is the resistance should increase or decrease as the temp rises.
So we will test the diodes first.
Disconnect the big brown wire from B+ (and tape it so it can't short out). Then set your multimeter to Diode test position.
Put the black test lead to the chassis and the red to the B+ terminal - all being well, it should read about 1.2V

View attachment 75711
The ford forums all say a failed temp compensator will lead to no output, so that's looking like the problem given yours seems to be AWOL. Check the diodes first as it's an easy test and may alter the decision what to do next. If the diodes test fine, hunt down a compensator seems to make the most sense, but if blown, rather than buying a compesator and repairing the alternator, I'd put the money toward a simpler alternator that doesn't use the compensator.

View attachment 75709

Just read this post , I’m off to check just now .

 

[Vinpetrol]

Just read this post , I’m off to check just now .

I have disconnected the brown wire from the B+ terminal and taped it up Then done the test on the B+ post and there was no reading at all . When I put the meter in the diode test position , 1 was on the screen and it didn’t change at all when testing the post.
I then tried it to see what voltage if any was present at the B+ post and it showed 1.03 volts
Test done with engine running .
Does that tell us anything ?

 

[V8Druid]

' I'd put the money toward a simpler alternator that doesn't use the compensator

me too ..... bang a 17 or a 19ACR on there and have done - sod the temp sensor shite

 

[V8Druid]

I have disconnected the brown wire from the B+ terminal and taped it up Then done the test on the B+ post and there was no reading at all . When I put the meter in the diode test position , 1 was on the screen and it didn’t change at all when testing the post.
I then tried it to see what voltage if any was present at the B+ post and it showed 1.03 volts
Test done with engine running .
Does that tell us anything ?

diode test should be done with the alternator stationary Vin - you are testing that alone .....