Druidic Dabblings and General Twaddle !!

[Rob65]

perusing the various VFD offerings on Fleabay last night I found a few interesting items Dave @Routy56
can't quite see how this is soooo cheap, sooo small and run 4hp? might risk one to try though - finding a suitable enclosure may prove interesting as this is obviously intended for panel mounting, which is good from the point of view of wiring security and OK if you have a decent enclosure to fit it into already - 's gonna need air circulation - smart little unit though

Pardon our interruption...

been looking for a BIG one for a while - there's a 10hp motor on the lathe - and not had a look yet to see if the motor's suitable - whether I'd wanna chance nigh on 290 quid is another matter, but looks to be the same breed as those I already have, which have performed well (so far ) - couple of years in with the one - intermittent usage admittedly - but does what it's supposed to every time I go to it -- will have to get my head into the back of the Harrison and firstly see if it's suitable ... then give it some serious thought the convenience of just being able to switch 'em on is nice - be interesting to know just what their power draw is though, too - not gonna run 7.5Kw off a 13A, 3pin -- and'd make the meter sit up a bit

Variable Frequency Drive 220V To 380V 3‑Phase Motor Speed Controller 11KW 15HP☯ | eBay UK

Equipped with Motor: 11KW 15HP. Rated Power: 11kW. Feature: 1. The frequency converter is a step-up type, civil 220V to industrial 380V, wiring is simple and convenient. This product is a non‑standard step‑up inverter, which needs to be customized.

www.ebay.co.uk

I think someone has got either their units or decimal point confused. In the small print of the spec for that it says 400w. That’s about half a horsepower. Which looks a bit more plausible

 

[Rob65]

perusing the various VFD offerings on Fleabay last night I found a few interesting items Dave @Routy56
can't quite see how this is soooo cheap, sooo small and run 4hp? might risk one to try though - finding a suitable enclosure may prove interesting as this is obviously intended for panel mounting, which is good from the point of view of wiring security and OK if you have a decent enclosure to fit it into already - 's gonna need air circulation - smart little unit though

Pardon our interruption...

been looking for a BIG one for a while - there's a 10hp motor on the lathe - and not had a look yet to see if the motor's suitable - whether I'd wanna chance nigh on 290 quid is another matter, but looks to be the same breed as those I already have, which have performed well (so far ) - couple of years in with the one - intermittent usage admittedly - but does what it's supposed to every time I go to it -- will have to get my head into the back of the Harrison and firstly see if it's suitable ... then give it some serious thought the convenience of just being able to switch 'em on is nice - be interesting to know just what their power draw is though, too - not gonna run 7.5Kw off a 13A, 3pin -- and'd make the meter sit up a bit

Variable Frequency Drive 220V To 380V 3‑Phase Motor Speed Controller 11KW 15HP☯ | eBay UK

Equipped with Motor: 11KW 15HP. Rated Power: 11kW. Feature: 1. The frequency converter is a step-up type, civil 220V to industrial 380V, wiring is simple and convenient. This product is a non‑standard step‑up inverter, which needs to be customized.

www.ebay.co.uk

I’ve got a vfd on my big Colchester lathe. It’s wired in with a 20amp breaker and that has never tripped. Maybe if you started taking big heavy cuts at high speed you might find the limits but for hobby type work without flood coolant the limits are how much blue hot swarf can you dodge not electrical.

 

[V8Druid]

I think someone has got either their units or decimal point confused. In the small print of the spec for that it says 400w. That’s about half a horsepower. Which looks a bit more plausible

so it does - well spotted @Rob65 ... looked way too small for 4hp/3Kw

 

[V8Druid]

I’ve got a vfd on my big Colchester lathe. It’s wired in with a 20amp breaker and that has never tripped. Maybe if you started taking big heavy cuts at high speed you might find the limits but for hobby type work without flood coolant the limits are how much blue hot swarf can you dodge not electrical.

how do you cater for your coolant pump Rob?
these VFDs 'll only run one motor at a time or do you not use it (coolant)
Which Colchester is it? T2000/Mascot/Mastiff?
blue swarf dodging is a fine art - or it melts into your skin

 

[V8Druid]

Thanks for the heads up on this panel mounted VFD unit
May sneak one in the door past SWMBO ready for my 3 phase stuff

bad news on the panel mount Dave -- @Rob65 has pointed out the description states 400W (circa 1/2hp) - wrongly listed/headed

 

[V8Druid]

Thanks for the heads up on this panel mounted VFD unit
May sneak one in the door past SWMBO ready for my 3 phase stuff

as you have no other source of 3ph available you could mount up what you've ordered on a panel/wall and have the outlet wired to a 4 pin x 3ph socket - then run wander leads to whatever 3ph kit you acquire up to 2hp

or
acquire one of these and cater for up to 10hp

Pardon our interruption...

depends really on how big yer 3ph shopping list/ambitions are
can only run one motor at a time though - hence the single 4 pin outlet (L1, L2, L3 & earth)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27539166...bdoVso2Nxyb+nG28U04OH5FRc=|tkp:Bk9SR5rN7pXZZQ

more single plugs (and line sockets)

Red 240/380-415V 16A 32A 4Pin 5 Pin Industrial Plug&Sockets IP44 3 Phase 3P+N+E | eBay UK

Protection level: IP44. Type: Industrial Plug Sockets. - 4/5 Pin plug，heavy duty impact-resistar, for site and industrial use. - Free hanging plug, easy installation, just insert it to the matched socket.

www.ebay.co.uk

or do as I do with the genny powered kit and put 5 pin chassis plugs on all the kit and just have a couple of wander leads with 5 pin plugs and 5 pin in line sockets on to run to whatever you want to use

Pardon our interruption...

the big issue with having a VFD remotely mounted is switching - can't have remote switching after the VFD - must be wired directly to the motor windings, so really needs to be on or, close to whatever you're using/running - so as said - mount on a panel that's mobile with a 240v wander lead to that and short 3ph lead(s) between the VFD and m/c on chassis plug and wander socket

My biggest issue is that some of my kit runs 3 lives AND a neutral, so needs genny power, (full 440v 3ph), hence the 5 pin plugs/sockets to run them and if you re-configure motors to run off a VFD, I can't then run them off the genny (unless I can find some suitable change over switches to take them between 220/440v in the way the motor windings are connected - do-able but finding a suitable rotary switch has eluded me so far)

 

[Monkeybusiness]

as you have no other source of 3ph available you could mount up what you've ordered on a panel/wall and have the outlet wired to a 4 pin x 3ph socket - then run wander leads to whatever 3ph kit you acquire up to 2hp

or
acquire one of these and cater for up to 10hp

Pardon our interruption...

depends really on how big yer 3ph shopping list/ambitions are
can only run one motor at a time though - hence the single 4 pin outlet (L1, L2, L3 & earth)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/27539166...bdoVso2Nxyb+nG28U04OH5FRc=|tkp:Bk9SR5rN7pXZZQ

View attachment 72184


more single plugs (and line sockets)

Red 240/380-415V 16A 32A 4Pin 5 Pin Industrial Plug&Sockets IP44 3 Phase 3P+N+E | eBay UK

Protection level: IP44. Type: Industrial Plug Sockets. - 4/5 Pin plug，heavy duty impact-resistar, for site and industrial use. - Free hanging plug, easy installation, just insert it to the matched socket.

www.ebay.co.uk

View attachment 72185


or do as I do with the genny powered kit and put 5 pin chassis plugs on all the kit and just have a couple of wander leads with 5 pin plugs and 5 pin in line sockets on to run to whatever you want to use

View attachment 72186

Pardon our interruption...

the big issue with having a VFD remotely mounted is switching - can't have remote switching after the VFD - must be wired directly to the motor windings, so really needs to be on or, close to whatever you're using/running - so as said - mount on a panel that's mobile with a 240v wander lead to that and short 3ph lead(s) between the VFD and m/c

My biggest issue is that some of my kit runs 3 lives AND a neutral, so needs genny power, (full 440v 3ph), hence the 5 pin plugs/sockets to run them and if you re-configure motors to run off a VFD, I can't then run them off the genny (unless I can find some suitable change over switches to take them between 220/440v in the way the motor windings are connected - do-able but finding a suitable rotary switch has eluded me so far)

Can’t you make a short fly-lead with the plug and socket wired vice-versa to stick in your power supply?

 

[V8Druid]

Can’t you make a short fly-lead with the plug and socket wired vice-versa to stick in your power supply?

that was my second suggestion Dan

.... as said - mount on a panel that's mobile with a 240v wander lead to that and short 3ph lead(s) between the VFD and m/c

 

[logansmith]

Blue Flame is discontinued now. Pressure switches no longer manufacturer spec, but if you did far enough in warranty T+Cs they are required if you have plastic pipework.

Really interesting to hear your experience with the Vortex Blue sounds like you got a solid install! Good call on prioritising NOx reduction too; cleaner combustion makes a real difference, especially with tighter emissions goals these days.

If you ever consider switching to a renewable option down the line, there’s some helpful info on support available here: air source heat pump grant uk – just search: ecoenergyservices.co.uk/services/air-source-heat-pump-grant/

Nice to see more people being proactive about energy efficiency!

 

[V8Druid]

Really interesting to hear your experience with the Vortex Blue sounds like you got a solid install! Good call on prioritising NOx reduction too; cleaner combustion makes a real difference, especially with tighter emissions goals these days.

If you ever consider switching to a renewable option down the line, there’s some helpful info on support available here: air source heat pump grant uk – just search: ecoenergyservices.co.uk/services/air-source-heat-pump-grant/

Nice to see more people being proactive about energy efficiency!

right you've peddled your wares - now sod off out of my thread --
good form here is a reasonably detailed introduction, in the intro.s thread, usually followed by your questions --
Then if you're peddling your wares - go to the "Products and Services" and quote a post if you're peddling in relation to it.

 

[Lancs Lad]

right you've peddled your wares - now sod off out of my thread --
good form here is a reasonably detailed introduction, in the intro.s thread, usually followed by your questions --
Then if you're peddling your wares - go to the "Products and Services" and quote a post if you're peddling in relation to it.

And do your research ..trying to sell a heat pump to an oil boiler engineer

 

[V8Druid]

And do your research ..trying to sell a heat pump to an oil boiler engineer

PMSL

 

[6feetdown]

And do your research ..trying to sell a heat pump to an oil boiler engineer

Glad you put engineer on the end

 

[Rob65]

how do you cater for your coolant pump Rob?
these VFDs 'll only run one motor at a time or do you not use it (coolant)
Which Colchester is it? T2000/Mascot/Mastiff?
blue swarf dodging is a fine art - or it melts into your skin

I used to have a separate small VFD on the coolant pump but never used it and it stunk the workshop out. Got rid of the coolant and used the VFD on something else.

The lathe is a Triumph 2000. The inverter I have on it is right on the edge of its stated rating but in reality with a slow ramping up of the motor under no load and no heroics with depth of cut / feeds it runs fine.

I have managed to run a 5.5kw VFD until the smoke came out by end stroking a ram on my electric excavator project. It was the bridge rectifier that cooked so was a straight forward fix with some higher rated diodes. If I overload it now the 20amp breaker goes first.

 

[V8Druid]

I used to have a separate small VFD on the coolant pump but never used it and it stunk the workshop out. Got rid of the coolant and used the VFD on something else.

The lathe is a Triumph 2000. The inverter I have on it is right on the edge of its stated rating but in reality with a slow ramping up of the motor under no load and no heroics with depth of cut / feeds it runs fine.

I have managed to run a 5.5kw VFD until the smoke came out by end stroking a ram on my electric excavator project. It was the bridge rectifier that cooked so was a straight forward fix with some higher rated diodes. If I overload it now the 20amp breaker goes first.

tends to do that if it ain't used/circulated regularly -- there seems to be a bacteria that likes to live on it -- like the small VFD idea for the pump though

 

[Rob65]

tends to do that if it ain't used/circulated regularly -- there seems to be a bacteria that likes to live on it -- like the small VFD idea for the pump though

I’ve just bought some cheep air misters I’m going to have a play with. I don't have any experience with these so don’t know if a mist will be enough to cool much but hopeful the air will clear the chips from milling work. The quickest way to kill a milling cutter is to re cut the swarf.

I’m hoping the water will evaporate from the coolant before the bacteria grows. It will leave an oily mess but that can be wiped off.

Do you have any experience with mist cooling?

 

[V8Druid]

I’ve just bought some cheep air misters I’m going to have a play with. I don't have any experience with these so don’t know if a mist will be enough to cool much but hopeful the air will clear the chips from milling work. The quickest way to kill a milling cutter is to re cut the swarf.

I’m hoping the water will evaporate from the coolant before the bacteria grows. It will leave an oily mess but that can be wiped off.

Do you have any experience with mist cooling?

think the bacteria actually likes the oil ... My old Cincinatti miller was the worst - didn't get used from one week to the next and usually stank

never tried it Rob - issue with it is you need an air supply - yet more gear and plumbing - have read mixed reviews for manual processing - in cabinet-ed CNC gear it's awesome apparently -- but then so is flood cooling

 

[Rob65]

think the bacteria actually likes the oil ... My old Cincinatti miller was the worst - didn't get used from one week to the next and usually stank

never tried it Rob - issue with it is you need an air supply - yet more gear and plumbing - have read mixed reviews for manual processing - in cabinet-ed CNC gear it's awesome apparently -- but then so is flood cooling

Air for misting is not a problem. I’ve read reports of problems with breathing the mist in whilst operating the machine.

I might try using clean compressed air with no oil in. It would clear the chips and might provide a bit of cooling. Can add a bit of oil with a brush if I think it’s needed.

 

[V8Druid]

Tayna to the rescue - again - this arrived yesterday by DX - thought they only did document deliveries for the legal fraternity, banks, etc. - but apparently not, talking to the driver - do all sorts of 'specials'

extremely well packed as usual

went for an Exide .. have given up with Varta from the local guys who're taking the absolute p*ss with prices lately (with the odd exception)
always date 'em and where they came from - makes looking for the invoice, when you need to throw them back at 'em easier

that said, I put a pair of Exide truck batteries on the 'Drema in 2015, from Tayna and still performing faultlessly ( said he, gripping a large piece of wood)
always used to be the 'go to' battery, years ago
anyway .. got it bolted into the Golf

and she started fine ..... but still had a charge light fully lit ... bloody reg. must've died - which would go a long way to explaining why the original battery was flatter than a badger on a bypass (and refuses to take a fresh charge - been on 36 hrs)
has done well though for the latest gen. Varta

hell there are some fitment options for alternators on these cars .. had to get a pic of what's on there to stand any chance of getting the right reg. for the right alternator

luckily this 'un is still well labelled and made life significantly easier, once I could see what I was dealing with.
Gonna try and change it 'in situ' as the lump looks a total bitch to get off the block - any advice Matt @pettsy ??
new one is 'sposed to be here tomorrow (but so 're the kids, so unlikely to get fitted tomorrow ) and deffo not an 'after tea' job

knocked this together after tea last night - ready for installation

these plastic enclosures are a bitch to get a nice clean hole into without a fair bit of de-burring afterwards - even with a hole saw

CT1-ed the socket enclosure down to the Gewiss for a seal

power supply for the suds pump, on the horizontal, when it turns up - couldn't find a suitable 240v job so went for a 12volt-er (which ain't a bad thing, sat in the coolant sump)
this will also be the incomer for the power to the VFD as well

and ready to get attached...

 

[V8Druid]

and that was today's job - on/off, through the day ..... marked out the mount points for the Gewiss enclosure and pre-drilled for some tecs - easier than fighting 'em into 3mm plate

and got it mounted

replaced the tatty old cable gland entering the suds tank/sump and it lined up nicely with the exit from the Gewiss for the 12v supply line for the pump -- would've been nice to have had it to install too, but not arrived yet
then laid in a length of cable to use for the VFD supply and coupled up the chassis plug

secured the cable to the suds tray and routed it to where I needed it to go (forgot the pix of that?) and turned my attention to getting the VFD mounted -- perfect fit in the location of the original push button - just, lengthwise, but needed to come up with a solution for the wider VFD base .... so
uncovered the vertical and it did its first job

nylon base board for the VFD ..
needed to make some clearance to use the existing cable gland holes in the original mount plate on the saw

and drilled some fixing holes to utilise the existing ones

then had to make a packer plate to let me route the cables behind the back of the VFD which is flat to the base --so - another piece of nylon got rooted out of me pile of bits - just the right size - amazingly

got me Ferex battery jigsaw out to create the slots to route the cables from their glands, behind the VFD back to 'surface' where they needed to be to connect up to the appropriate terminals in the 'box of tricks' ... bit rough an' ready, but did the job

assembled and tried for a fit

then installed on the saw's mount plate

cable-ing time
opened up the motor's connection box and got started re-configuring the winding's wiring .. just doing the last connection and dropped the bloody link

twenty minutes combing the planings looking for it .. saw it land - and bounce - didn't see where to, but eventually found it - not a lot of room in the motor's connection box for much else