Energy costs make you look at things

[Smiffy]

That's not how the market works. Let me repeat- if people can only borrow £200k at 5% then they can only afford a £200k house. It's that simple. What makes you so sure that 'it can't devalue'?

People will indeed sit tight. Doesn't matter. Markets are set at the margins- probate sellers, divorcing couples etc. People in negative equity will only be bankrupted if interest rates rise and remain so high as to be unnafordable.

The land supply is indeed finite, but it's nowhere near as finite as somewhere like Singapore. Hence my comment about planning laws. Same with 'affordable' houses. It's all down to government policy.

I bet the people sitting tight will sit tight longer than the banks offering smaller mortgages will when there bottom line is hit.
Besides why would banks limit the mortgages. They will do everything in there power to make them bigger as it's more profit.
In your version I think it would be more likely that to find the extra money plot sizes would shrink rather than land devalue. We would all end up in apartments or 3 story townhouses that would make a victorian terrace look like a mansion.
Their is to much money tied up in land for anyone important to let it devalue.

 

[fred]

problem is doobin, there is a hard limit on house pricing and that is the cost to build. £2k / m2 is the average in the midlands that doesnt include the land obviously. So the bog standard legoland 120m2 3 bed is already 240k before the land, legals, council, levies, utilities, section 105 etc etc

The only way to reduce that is pay the trades less or less for mats. Which of those is likely to happen.

Land prices is the only variable and the Persimmon, Taylor wimpies etc have options on nigh on everything with a sniff of being built on in the next 100 years. So what is the incentive for them to build if land prices crash ? They wont. Supply will then drop and guess what will happen to house prices.

 

[doobin]

help to buy is not a bad scheme, we offered it on a couple starter places, a very nice Lithuanian who had moved to the uk the previous year took advantage of it. The giv will have a nice bite of the cake when they choose to pay it off.

The gov dont need to legislate for houses to be improved, the banks are doing it already. Loans and mortgages on EPC D and below will disappear so the owner is faced with a choice. Do it up themself or sell it at below market rates to people who will. There are millions of properties in this bracket.

A properly insulated, air tight home costs peanuts to heat in energy. Cheap gas meant no one had to bother.

Help to buy is f****ng terrible. All it has done is enrich landowners and developers and mean that people are paying way over the unmanipulated market rate for basic houses. Because it was only available on new builds, it forced thousands of people to choose a shitty new rabbit hutch as their only way on to the property 'ladder'. That ladder now no longer exists. People simply cannot afford to buy in at recent prices now that interest rates have multiplied more than tenfold. Sounds astronomical- until you realise that it's just a return to the norm. People can't buy in = people can't trade up as they can't sell the old place.

I feel for anyone suckered in to this scheme. A basic new build at £400k down here, £50k of that is 'help to buy'. Co-incidentaly, Persimmons profits per unit rose by 49k after it was introduced... When they come to remortgage after five years at 6 or 7%, it's going to be totally unnaffordable. On top of that, they have to start paying interest on the Government's share after five years- which increases by the CPI every year!

These will be the first forced sellers, mark my words. After adding the 'new build premium' to their losses there will be some very long faces all around.

 

[JD450A]

Is it wrong that I see no reason with people having to put a f****ng cardigan on.

 

[V8Druid]

That's not how the market works. Let me repeat- if people can only borrow £200k at 5% then they can only afford a £200k house. It's that simple. What makes you so sure that 'it can't devalue'?

People will indeed sit tight. Doesn't matter. Markets are set at the margins- probate sellers, divorcing couples etc. People in negative equity will only be bankrupted if interest rates rise and remain so high as to be unnafordable.

The land supply is indeed finite, but it's nowhere near as finite as somewhere like Singapore. Hence my comment about planning laws. Same with 'affordable' houses. It's all down to government policy.

most dev.s are building on land 'banked' years previous and to take a hit on the land value will mean building even cheaper -- or not building and sitting back waiting for prices to rise again
same with 'affordable' .... dev.s will not build if the sale value is lower than what they can (are allowed to) sell for ..... affordable element is currently set at 25% in Monmouthshire on any dev. above 4 units, so if you want to build more, the 'main' units have to subsidise the affordable elements ... they may be crap, but still consuming valuable percentages of the actual site/plot ..... seen it before ... they simply stop building and mothball anything on going, usually. Very few dev.s have much in the way of standing costs to worry about.

 

[fred]

most dev.s are building on land 'banked' years previous and to take a hit on the land value will mean building even cheaper -- or not building and sitting back waiting for prices to rise again
same with 'affordable' .... dev.s will not build if the sale value is lower than what they can (are allowed to) sell for ..... affordable element is currently set at 25% in Monmouthshire on any dev. above 4 units, so if you want to build more, the 'main' units have to subsidise the affordable elements ... they may be crap, but still consuming valuable percentages of the actual site/plot ..... seen it before ... they simply stop building and mothball anything on going, usually. Very few dev.s have much in the way of standing costs to worry about.

exactly this.

I have a mate who is a site agent at the big persimmon site near oxford, in march they had a meeting and were told it was 50:50 on the site being mothballed as the mats costs were too high against budget.

 

[GazCro]

Is it wrong that I see no reason with people having to put a f****ng cardigan on.

It's like bleating on about better energy efficient homes and insulating existing houses better and there's folk sitting in houses with the heating cranked right up half naked whining about heating bills.

 

[GazCro]

exactly this.

I have a mate who is a site agent at the big persimmon site near oxford, in march they had a meeting and were told it was 50:50 on the site being mothballed as the mats costs were too high against budget.

Likes of persimmon want to go under anyway standard of building they are turning out.

 

[V8Druid]

Likes of persimmon want to go under anyway standard of building they are turning out.

they're all the bloody same ..... in biz to make money ..... never seen a philanthropic developer

 

[fred]

Likes of persimmon want to go under anyway standard of building they are turning out.

totally agree. They are lucky if 1 in 5 of their new builds actually get inspected by building control at all. Building control are private firms, so not really in their interest to rock the boat with their employers!

Where's small developers get inspected by not only building control but the warranty providers as well.

 

[GazCro]

totally agree. They are lucky if 1 in 5 of their new builds actually get inspected by building control at all. Building control are private firms, so not really in their interest to rock the boat with their employers!

Where's small developers get inspected by not only building control but the warranty providers as well.

Most the big house builders own their private inspector companies in any case.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Don't want to get into a debate but an electric car is power hungry by nature but do you need a 65" 8k TV to have an acceptable viewing experience

it was to point out the daftness of it all

 

[V8Druid]

getting back to the thread topic " Energy costs make you look at things "
bit of a rant
back last Oct. my quarterly varaible leccy D/d got changed to a monthly, fixed amount - no consultation/discussion - bang - done. no real problem as far as I was concerned .. figure looked fine - circa what I'd expect of the quarterly divided by three.
However, they did this 2 days before my quarterly variable'd have paid off what was due, so left me owing them the quarterly, plus the next month's .. win win, sort of
had considered paying the quarterly, as it should've been, to get me up to date, but thought ''sod it'' ... their stupidity - their loss.

then the EPG came in and the monthly D/d of £126 was getting halved by the 67 quid rebate/refund

email from SSE, 25th March to say the Gov. had extended the EPG to July '23

My D/d goes out on the 4th of the month and Jan./Feb./March the EPG credit returns to my account on the 5th

This month get an email saying they'm upping the monthly to £197, starting June ... presumably to try to catch up on their own stupidity from October's **** up on their part ... sod it, they can collect the quarter's payment owing over 5 months.

However, looking at me bank statements on line this month, the 4th of the month's £126 went out as usual, but no sign of the £67, extended EPG refund/rebate.

just had a looong conversation with some foreigner, who was barely intelligible, identifying as 'Alex'! about this ....
after holding for ten minutes, whilst 'Alex' consulted her supervisor on the 'company line' on this - she had no answers, to my questions and started by telling me that the email I was quoting to her, had never been sent

She also had no answers as to why the extended EPG scheme had not been paid, but went on to say that if I hadn't had it by the end of the month, to call back. FFS

after pointing out that they'd already had three weeks to apply this to my (and everyone else's) account ..
why hadn't they and how much did she think SSE had already earnt in the three weeks, thus far, that they'd hung on to these payments for circa 20 million people?

she went off to 'consult' yet again.

On her return I was promised a call on the 28th, to enquire if I'd received it or not

I wasn't going to get any sense from 'Alex' and as she wouldn't connect me to anyone else who -
(a) might've been more intelligible
or
(b) might've had a bit more nouse/answers, so I gave up, exasperated.

Take a look at your statements guys .. see if this is a 'national' piss take?

it was an extended scheme " It was announced in the Budget on 15 March, that the support provided to you through the EPG will remain in place until July 2023 " so WTF would it need ANY EFFORT to put it in place ... they're taking the piss and creaming off the earnings it'd make them for a month or so.

Now what I need is some suggestions as to where to air these issues other than having a 'bit of a rant' here
TBH the EPG rebate makes zero difference to me when it arrives - I'm fortunate - but dare say there will be a lot of ppl out there that this delay will make a big difference to their monthly budgeting

 

[charlie2]

getting back to the thread topic " Energy costs make you look at things "
bit of a rant
back last Oct. my quarterly varaible leccy D/d got changed to a monthly, fixed amount - no consultation/discussion - bang - done. no real problem as far as I was concerned .. figure looked fine - circa what I'd expect of the quarterly divided by three.
However, they did this 2 days before my quarterly variable'd have paid off what was due, so left me owing them the quarterly, plus the next month's .. win win, sort of
had considered paying the quarterly, as it should've been, to get me up to date, but thought ''sod it'' ... their stupidity - their loss.

then the EPG came in and the monthly D/d of £126 was getting halved by the 67 quid rebate/refund

email from SSE, 25th March to say the Gov. had extended the EPG to July '23

My D/d goes out on the 4th of the month and Jan./Feb./March the EPG credit returns to my account on the 5th

This month get an email saying they'm upping the monthly to £197, starting June ... presumably to try to catch up on their own stupidity from October's **** up on their part ... sod it, they can collect the quarter's payment owing over 5 months.

However, looking at me bank statements on line this month, the 4th of the month's £126 went out as usual, but no sign of the £67, extended EPG refund/rebate.

just had a looong conversation with some foreigner, who was barely intelligible, identifying as 'Alex'! about this ....
after holding for ten minutes, whilst 'Alex' consulted her supervisor on the 'company line' on this - she had no answers, to my questions and started by telling me that the email I was quoting to her, had never been sent

She also had no answers as to why the extended EPG scheme had not been paid, but went on to say that if I hadn't had it by the end of the month, to call back. FFS

after pointing out that they'd already had three weeks to apply this to my (and everyone else's) account ..
why hadn't they and how much did she think SSE had already earnt in the three weeks, thus far, that they'd hung on to these payments for circa 20 million people?

she went off to 'consult' yet again.

On her return I was promised a call on the 28th, to enquire if I'd received it or not

I wasn't going to get any sense from 'Alex' and as she wouldn't connect me to anyone else who -
(a) might've been more intelligible
or
(b) might've had a bit more nouse/answers, so I gave up, exasperated.

Take a look at your statements guys .. see if this is a 'national' piss take?

it was an extended scheme " It was announced in the Budget on 15 March, that the support provided to you through the EPG will remain in place until July 2023 " so WTF would it need ANY EFFORT to put it in place ... they're taking the piss and creaming off the earnings it'd make them for a month or so.

Now what I need is some suggestions as to where to air these issues other than having a 'bit of a rant' here
TBH the EPG rebate makes zero difference to me when it arrives - I'm fortunate - but dare say there will be a lot of ppl out there that this delay will make a big difference to their monthly budgeting

the 67 quids stopped in march i think but the epg is supposedly still in place otherwise cost would have gone up again hopefully when its next debated the prices will have dropped a bit.

 

[Bob]

I was with SSE for gas then was told you will be paying monthly and can you set up a bank payment plan,we don't post bills and we will be fitting a smart meter late last year it turned out SSE had been taken over by Ova energy which I replied don't do direct debit and don't do smart meters so I pay on receipt of email .
I get Lecce from eon who also went monthly take it or leave I haven't had any rebate this month as well

 

[V8Druid]

the 67 quids stopped in march i think but the epg is supposedly still in place otherwise cost would have gone up again hopefully when its next debated the prices will have dropped a bit.

and how would they apply the 200 quid equally then Charlie? .... can't incorporate it into the bills as everyone's consumption is different ... was a fixed amount agreed, not variable according to your monthly spend

 

[V8Druid]

the 67 quids stopped in march i think but the epg is supposedly still in place otherwise cost would have gone up again hopefully when its next debated the prices will have dropped a bit.

my energy price rate has come down from 32.35p/kwh in March to 31.69p/kwh in April ... what has gone up, despite Martin Lewis's prog. saying the Gov had told them to freeze it is the standing charge ... up to51.26p/day from 46.82p/day that is a BIG jump in a month .... but not as bad as the nigh on doubling of it that occurred last April (23.68p/day to 45.85p/day) and it's gone up again, since that, to the above 46.82p/day in October
they are simply taking the piss with the EPG
was told that they hadn't applied it yet this month, due to some tech issue, but would be by the end of the month -- ker****ingching FFS -- 20+M customers EPGs x £200 x 30 days = £????????????????? earnings

 

[V8Druid]

 

[hiluxman]

View attachment 47758

Money money money . It makes the world go round....or does it make the ceo go round the world on a cruise

 

[Smiffy]

Money money money . It makes the world go round....or does it make the ceo go round the world on a cruise

I think a few of the people in charge have forgotten their history lessons about what happens when the peasants get fed up with them.