Energy costs make you look at things

[Quattromike]

With the cost of electric going up with everything else my BIL has bought PV panels to go on the roof of his shed but doesn't intended to connect them to the mains. He says no point with the lack of feed in tariff. Instead he will connect up to stand alone immersion heater setup in the hot water tank to heat water for heating his house and general hot water duties. It's making me think about getting some on the workshop roof to ease back the electricity cost a bit. All being well when you do the sums it does add up but what has everyone else found with these panels, are they worth it?

 

[JD450A]

Buy a Lister generating set..... that's my plan.

 

[fred]

to make a dent you really need at least 4KW of them, 1 or 2 will be pointless and wont run an immersion.

Definitely a long term pay back but worth it if you are planning to stay. battery + panels is the best. A electric car can be used in place of the battery.

To give you an idea i have 3.885kw on my roof and this week it has generated 39.5KW/h for which I'll be paid £21 and ive exported nothing.

The tariff days are gone but what a brilliant setup it was, free cash for the next 20 years. I average £1800-£2000 per year and it goes up with inflation every year. Couldn't believe it when they brought it out.

 

[fred]

we use these guys for cheap kits

Plug-In Solar Self Install DIY Kits | Plug In Solar

Plug In Solar - Your DIY Solar Energy Solution

www.pluginsolar.co.uk

 

[Smiffy]

I've spoken to a few doing similar but with night storage heaters. Apparently the sums don't add up with battery banks and the pay back using thermal stores is much better.also they require a far less regulated supply so can be wired into homemade wind turbines and hydro generators which domestic appliances can't without expensive boxes of tricks.

 

[rossandson]

I’m thinking along the same lines except at a small farm we have just taken on. Currently no power there, had a quote from Western Power and will be approx £20k. I’ve currently got 4kw worth of panels stored, just need to get an inverter and some batteries but still researching what’s best. I’m swaying towards PylonTech batteries but still working the rest out, it’s a slight minefield.

To begin with it’s just for security (cameras and alarm) and to charge the odd makita battery. Oh and some lighting.

Anyone else done similar?

 

[Furniss]

Interesting thread - I have a 300m2 building at yard and was wondering if it was worth looking at something.

 

[fred]

I've spoken to a few doing similar but with night storage heaters. Apparently the sums don't add up with battery banks and the pay back using thermal stores is much better.also they require a far less regulated supply so can be wired into homemade wind turbines and hydro generators which domestic appliances can't without expensive boxes of tricks.

With a battery bank (tesla powerwall etc) you get to 'time shift' your electric useage. I only ever pay 6p kw/h for mine as the battery provides it during the peak/day and if the battery isnt topped up by the solar then it charges in the early hours for cheap and sometimes free if there is enough excess on the grid.

It really helps bring down the payback period, my solar paid for itself in 4 years, the battery maybe 5.

Both are legitimate business expenses for the home office so can claim VAT and corp tax against them.

 

[Routy56]

We have had 4kW of Solar on our roof facing South since 2015 with FIT

Here I am trying to encourage them to grow

Even with a reduced FIT, it's the best thing that we did for reducing bills and doing our bit for the planet.
They have paid for themselves over and over again.
SWMBO usually put on high consumption stuff when we are generating surplus.
Usually, dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer etc - Sharon is well trained

Now, two of my neighbours opposite have about 3kW of panels on their garage roofs.
No FIT just a Grid Tied Inverter to offset their consumption.
One the old buggers got caught out when his old fashioned meter had been going backwards and showed a minus figure for some reading(s)

Personally, I think that it's a waste of time trying to get Solar PV to heat water for general heating etc.
I think that it's better to offset the general constant background power that we use day by day.

So, coming to your question - YES DO IT
Some panels on yer shed will help keep yer consumption down.
Now your just need to decide on straight forward Grid Tied or Battery Storage

 

[GazCro]

We have had 4kW of Solar on our roof facing South since 2015 with FIT
View attachment 32155
Here I am trying to encourage them to grow

Even with a reduced FIT, it's the best thing that we did for reducing bills and doing our bit for the planet.
They have paid for themselves over and over again.
SWMBO usually put on high consumption stuff when we are generating surplus.
Usually, dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer etc - Sharon is well trained

Now, two of my neighbours opposite have about 3kW of panels on their garage roofs.
No FIT just a Grid Tied Inverter to offset their consumption.
One the old buggers got caught out when his old fashioned meter had been going backwards and showed a minus figure for some reading(s)

Personally, I think that it's a waste of time trying to get Solar PV to heat water for general heating etc.
I think that it's better to offset the general constant background power that we use day by day.

So, coming to your question - YES DO IT
Some panels on yer shed will help keep yer consumption down.
Now your just need to decide on straight forward Grid Tied or Battery Storage

Biggest negative for using it to heat water is that unless you are gonna start again with you're heating system most homes aren't set up to use it efficiently.

 

[Smiffy]

With a battery bank (tesla powerwall etc) you get to 'time shift' your electric useage. I only ever pay 6p kw/h for mine as the battery provides it during the peak/day and if the battery isnt topped up by the solar then it charges in the early hours for cheap and sometimes free if there is enough excess on the grid.

It really helps bring down the payback period, my solar paid for itself in 4 years, the battery maybe 5.

Both are legitimate business expenses for the home office so can claim VAT and corp tax against them.

The pay back time on thermal storage is effectively zero though in comparison to the battery setups 5 years. And then there is the question of the battery life.
People I know are a bit heath Robinson so second hand storage heaters for not a lot of money that have proven lifespan. And can fixed if it's more cost effective than buying more second hand units.

And most people can't claim vat back which adds to the cost.
And regardless of how beneficial it is in the long run you either have to have the money up front or be able to take out the loan. Some of which is not possible.

Then you have the moral implications of using lithium batteries in a quest to save the planet.


The best answer I've seen so far is a wood fired Rayburn with a back boiler.
Free or virtually free second hand.
If you are prepared to do some work the fuel is often free and it cooks your dinner too.

 

[fred]

thermal are only good for heating though. It requires you to have tanks which most with a gas combi dont. We all use electric though which is why its a better payback for battery and timeshifted use.

 

[GazCro]

The pay back time on thermal storage is effectively zero though in comparison to the battery setups 5 years. And then there is the question of the battery life.
People I know are a bit heath Robinson so second hand storage heaters for not a lot of money that have proven lifespan. And can fixed if it's more cost effective than buying more second hand units.

And most people can't claim vat back which adds to the cost.
And regardless of how beneficial it is in the long run you either have to have the money up front or be able to take out the loan. Some of which is not possible.

Then you have the moral implications of using lithium batteries in a quest to save the planet.


The best answer I've seen so far is a wood fired Rayburn with a back boiler.
Free or virtually free second hand.
If you are prepared to do some work the fuel is often free and it cooks your dinner too.

I love it when people think firewood is free. If you put a value on your own time even if you're getting the wood for nowt and only cutting splitting and storing it it adds up.

 

[DaveDCB]

I love it when people think firewood is free. If you put a value on your own time even if you're getting the wood for nowt and only cutting splitting and storing it it adds up.

It’s more rewarding than paying out 1k for a kerosene top up every 6 months

 

[Maxus]

My two peneth: do not have all your eggs in one basket. If you have solar, a generator and a connection to the grid that's got to be good irrespective of price (within reason). Who knows how prices/circumstances will change over the next ten years?

 

[GazCro]

It’s more rewarding than paying out 1k for a kerosene top up every 6 months

There's better hobbies

 

[fred]

It’s more rewarding than paying out 1k for a kerosene top up every 6 months

for those not on mains gas there are no easy options.

Heat pumps require an airtight, heavily insulated shell or your pissing in the wind. This makes old buildings expensive to convert. but may be worth it looking at the long term.

 

[craig]

I’m thinking along the same lines except at a small farm we have just taken on. Currently no power there, had a quote from Western Power and will be approx £20k. I’ve currently got 4kw worth of panels stored, just need to get an inverter and some batteries but still researching what’s best. I’m swaying towards PylonTech batteries but still working the rest out, it’s a slight minefield.

To begin with it’s just for security (cameras and alarm) and to charge the odd makita battery. Oh and some lighting.

Anyone else done similar?

Didn't @Justme say he was off grid in another thread?

 

[GazCro]

for those not on mains gas there are no easy options.

Heat pumps require an airtight, heavily insulated shell or your pissing in the wind. This makes old buildings expensive to convert. but may be worth it looking at the long term.

Insulation is beneficial to any building regardless of heat source though. I think the relative low cost of gas ch has wasted us in this country for a long time and made us wasteful and not care about how much we use.

 

[V8Druid]

really interesting thread .... where do I start?
@fred

to make a dent you really need at least 4KW of them, 1 or 2 will be pointless and wont run an immersion.

Definitely a long term pay back but worth it if you are planning to stay. battery + panels is the best. A electric car can be used in place of the battery.

To give you an idea i have 3.885kw on my roof and this week it has generated 39.5KW/h for which I'll be paid £21 and ive exported nothing.

The tariff days are gone but what a brilliant setup it was, free cash for the next 20 years. I average £1800-£2000 per year and it goes up with inflation every year. Couldn't believe it when they brought it out.

as i understood it when i looked at it, maybe ten years ago, when the FIT was circa 45p/kw, 4Kw was all you were allowed as a domestic installation ... FIT is as you say a waste of time now at paltry pennies/kw so agree with the panels and batteries .... but although panel life has improved significantly in the last ten years, batteries still have finite lives and are bloody expensive
How do you get paid £21 when you've exported nothing @fred ... do you mean you ACTUALLY get paid or you have saved 21 quid?????
assume with your 'income' you are still on the circa 45p/Kw FIT?? .... not sure about the 20 years though .. that FIT disappeared ten-ish years ago and the panel life back then was ten-ish years if you were lucky so have you upgraded your panels in the interim?

if you have a bigger than 4Kw capacity roof space and stick to non grid connected set up, can you put up say 10Kw's worth of panels to feed batteries?
there was a lot of fuss about having the installation due south, but on a low pitched roof, does it really matter that much .. looked at putting 'em on our barn roof back then and would've been either SE or SW , which we were told wasn't ideal.
have been considering it for me shed roof, as and when and have been seriously considering re-orientating the whole structure to face it south to get a good 90M2 facing that way at a 12 deg. pitch ... obviously it'd need to be off grid and battery storage only.

" if the battery isnt topped up by the solar then it charges in the early hours for cheap and sometimes free if there is enough excess on the grid. " how the hell does that work ? free leccy??????

what do you suppose your set up has cost you in total, hard cash, excluding what it has brought back to the party ?