Energy costs make you look at things

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bobthebuilder

Well-known member
a headline in the french press

French energy distributor can cut off million households of hot water via electricity meter​

In event of power shortage, Enedis will remotely shut off hot water tanks of households using specific type of electricity meter​

 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
a headline in the french press

French energy distributor can cut off million households of hot water via electricity meter​

In event of power shortage, Enedis will remotely shut off hot water tanks of households using specific type of electricity meter​

time for a re-wire :giggle::giggle:
 
Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
O

OBL

Well-known member
I read elsewhere this idea to alleviate the current energy crisis whilst hopefully not bankrup the country further....

1 Each household has smart gas/elec meters

2 Each household has enough very cheap/free electricity/gas for basics, cooking, washing and hot water based on MINIMAL usage of a small home.

3 Any energy used above that is billed at current market rate up to what is considered reasonable usage of a larger family home.

4 Energy used above this rate per household is more expensive to subsidise the free energy received in 1. So the cost of fuelling electric cars, pools, hot tubs etc is a fair bit more. What you’d consider non essential use.

I think this would encourage people to use less and educate themselves on usage.

what do you think? Im wondering if the highest rate would bring in enough to subsidise the lowest rate a bit like tax system. Although the caps on each level could be tweaked yearly as wholesale costs change.

I think it has merit.
I understand that it’s not fair on folks that work hard to pay more (like tax) but I think the alternative is more public borrowing and poor old folk dead from cold.
 
Lancs Lad

Lancs Lad

Well-known member
I read elsewhere this idea to alleviate the current energy crisis whilst hopefully not bankrup the country further....

1 Each household has smart gas/elec meters

2 Each household has enough very cheap/free electricity/gas for basics, cooking, washing and hot water based on MINIMAL usage of a small home.

3 Any energy used above that is billed at current market rate up to what is considered reasonable usage of a larger family home.

4 Energy used above this rate per household is more expensive to subsidise the free energy received in 1. So the cost of fuelling electric cars, pools, hot tubs etc is a fair bit more. What you’d consider non essential use.

I think this would encourage people to use less and educate themselves on usage.

what do you think? Im wondering if the highest rate would bring in enough to subsidise the lowest rate a bit like tax system. Although the caps on each level could be tweaked yearly as wholesale costs change.

I think it has merit.
I understand that it’s not fair on folks that work hard to pay more (like tax) but I think the alternative is more public borrowing and poor old folk dead from cold.
Two things...1. slightly 1984 ish... 2. It's a non starter as electric cars charging rates are enshrined in holy cow like worship levels ATM so hence they get cheapest rates to charge em
 
O

OBL

Well-known member
Two things...1. slightly 1984 ish... 2. It's a non starter as electric cars charging rates are enshrined in holy cow like worship levels ATM so hence they get cheapest rates to charge em
Yeah, I get the 1984 bit.
no way is it perfect.
I mean the electric car charging could be subsidised too, but you’d have to do it by taxing f**k out of the folk who can pay £70k for a bland saloon with a very expensive battery.
It does seem though as a country we need fairly radical solutions as we are certainly living beyond our means and living off pay day loans🤨
 
doobin

doobin

Well-known member
If you want to actually tame inflation, then you need demand reduction. This would help with that.
 
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L

Lynchy

Well-known member
I read elsewhere this idea to alleviate the current energy crisis whilst hopefully not bankrup the country further....

1 Each household has smart gas/elec meters

2 Each household has enough very cheap/free electricity/gas for basics, cooking, washing and hot water based on MINIMAL usage of a small home.

3 Any energy used above that is billed at current market rate up to what is considered reasonable usage of a larger family home.

4 Energy used above this rate per household is more expensive to subsidise the free energy received in 1. So the cost of fuelling electric cars, pools, hot tubs etc is a fair bit more. What you’d consider non essential use.

I think this would encourage people to use less and educate themselves on usage.

what do you think? Im wondering if the highest rate would bring in enough to subsidise the lowest rate a bit like tax system. Although the caps on each level could be tweaked yearly as wholesale costs change.

I think it has merit.
I understand that it’s not fair on folks that work hard to pay more (like tax) but I think the alternative is more public borrowing and poor old folk dead from cold.
Where/who exactly are the 'poor old folk dying from the cold'?People already pay more if they use more,just seems like more fluffy advertising for ubi/ smart meters,sounds great,until everyone forced onto them/ it then see how fluffy things become
 
O

OBL

Well-known member
Where/who exactly are the 'poor old folk dying from the cold'?People already pay more if they use more,just seems like more fluffy advertising for ubi/ smart meters,sounds great,until everyone forced onto them/ it then see how fluffy things become
Well hopefully none yet, but next winter if the wholesale costs don’t come down after the cap is lifted then who knows.
 
O

OBL

Well-known member
If you want to actually tame inflation, then you need demand reduction. This would help with that.
I think the two angles that interested me were the incentive to use less, like you say, and to reduce the countries borrowing, now interest on our debt appears to be becoming an issue.

Regarding using less... this hopefully means people will wake up and demand more energy efficient homes creating some growth in the building industry?
instead of churning out rubbish standard homes.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
I think the two angles that interested me were the incentive to use less, like you say, and to reduce the countries borrowing, now interest on our debt appears to be becoming an issue.

Regarding using less... this hopefully means people will wake up and demand more energy efficient homes creating some growth in the building industry?
instead of churning out rubbish standard homes.
But who is going to afford to pay the additional 25-is% that they're going to cost to build .... won't be able to just throw them up, like they do currently
 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member
But who is going to afford to pay the additional 25-is% that they're going to cost to build .... won't be able to just throw them up, like they do currently

I don't think people realise the pitfalls of the green housing scam. If we slowly flatten the housing stock and rebuild more energy efficient, we are going to be paying a huge sum for what is realistically little gain. The developers certainly arnt going to be rebuilding the country for free. Either houses will cost more or they will be smaller. Either way we loose out.
 
doobin

doobin

Well-known member
But who is going to afford to pay the additional 25-is% that they're going to cost to build .... won't be able to just throw them up, like they do currently
The land will be worth less.

Borrowing ability dictates what people can bid a house up to. Props such as the disgrace that was Help to Buy (in reality, help for the Tory-donating developer to sell) have distorted this along with years of zero percent interest rates.

If a government actually had the balls to legislate for all homes to be energy efficient, and the rates rising back to a normal level means that people can borrow less, then the only thing that can give is the cost of the land and the builders profits. Who knows, given the right govenerment and the right attitude to planning laws we might even see a return to small developments of affordable, quality housing built by local craftspeople.

In reality, some other bullshit prop will be invented and we will keep flooding this land with immigrants, leading to suppresion of wages and increased demand for s**t quality housing.

Like I say, it all depends upon a government having the balls to do what's best for this country.

 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member
The land will be worth less.

Borrowing ability dictates what people can bid a house up to. Props such as the disgrace that was Help to Buy (in reality, help for the Tory-donating developer to sell) have distorted this along with years of zero percent interest rates.

If a government actually had the balls to legislate for all homes to be energy efficient, and the rates rising back to a normal level means that people can borrow less, then the only thing that can give is the cost of the land and the builders profits. Who knows, given the right govenerment and the right attitude to planning laws we might even see a return to small developments of affordable, quality housing built by local craftspeople.

In reality, some other bullshit prop will be invented and we will keep flooding this land with immigrants, leading to suppresion of wages and increased demand for s**t quality housing.

Like I say, it all depends upon a government having the balls to do what's best for this country.


It can't devalue though as people would be unable to afford to sell there house at a loss and would hold out. Reducing the supply and maintaining prices. Either that or everyone with a mortgage is bankrupted. The only way it will work is for house prices to stangnate whilst wages increase drastically. Although people will then bid up houses so the chance of house price stagnation is slim
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
The land will be worth less.

Borrowing ability dictates what people can bid a house up to. Props such as the disgrace that was Help to Buy (in reality, help for the Tory-donating developer to sell) have distorted this along with years of zero percent interest rates.

If a government actually had the balls to legislate for all homes to be energy efficient, and the rates rising back to a normal level means that people can borrow less, then the only thing that can give is the cost of the land and the builders profits. Who knows, given the right govenerment and the right attitude to planning laws we might even see a return to small developments of affordable, quality housing built by local craftspeople.

In reality, some other bullshit prop will be invented and we will keep flooding this land with immigrants, leading to suppresion of wages and increased demand for s**t quality housing.

Like I say, it all depends upon a government having the balls to do what's best for this country.

finite supply = not going to happen

...... there're plenty of small operators building small dev.s ... but when you have to comply with the affordable element above four units, they'll continue to build less than affordable dev.s
 
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charlie2

Well-known member
finite supply = not going to happen

...... there're plenty of small operators building small dev.s ... but when you have to comply with the affordable element above four units, they'll continue to build less than affordable dev.s
plenty get around the affordable bit by getting somehow to state it would be un economic to build it seems to happen in south dorset and west dorset not every development but to me it seem to happen. it should be completely across the board but it isnt by any means, often developers will threaten court action or some other reason not to have to do it and bingo affordable gone. or to put it another way money talks and its not what you know it is who you know. i expect it is the same everywhere.
 
F

fred

Well-known member
The land will be worth less.

Borrowing ability dictates what people can bid a house up to. Props such as the disgrace that was Help to Buy (in reality, help for the Tory-donating developer to sell) have distorted this along with years of zero percent interest rates.

If a government actually had the balls to legislate for all homes to be energy efficient, and the rates rising back to a normal level means that people can borrow less, then the only thing that can give is the cost of the land and the builders profits. Who knows, given the right govenerment and the right attitude to planning laws we might even see a return to small developments of affordable, quality housing built by local craftspeople.

In reality, some other bullshit prop will be invented and we will keep flooding this land with immigrants, leading to suppresion of wages and increased demand for s**t quality housing.

Like I say, it all depends upon a government having the balls to do what's best for this country.


help to buy is not a bad scheme, we offered it on a couple starter places, a very nice Lithuanian who had moved to the uk the previous year took advantage of it. The giv will have a nice bite of the cake when they choose to pay it off.

The gov dont need to legislate for houses to be improved, the banks are doing it already. Loans and mortgages on EPC D and below will disappear so the owner is faced with a choice. Do it up themself or sell it at below market rates to people who will. There are millions of properties in this bracket.

A properly insulated, air tight home costs peanuts to heat in energy. Cheap gas meant no one had to bother.
 
doobin

doobin

Well-known member
finite supply = not going to happen

...... there're plenty of small operators building small dev.s ... but when you have to comply with the affordable element above four units, they'll continue to build less than affordable dev.s
It can't devalue though as people would be unable to afford to sell there house at a loss and would hold out. Reducing the supply and maintaining prices. Either that or everyone with a mortgage is bankrupted. The only way it will work is for house prices to stangnate whilst wages increase drastically. Although people will then bid up houses so the chance of house price stagnation is slim
That's not how the market works. Let me repeat- if people can only borrow £200k at 5% then they can only afford a £200k house. It's that simple. What makes you so sure that 'it can't devalue'?

People will indeed sit tight. Doesn't matter. Markets are set at the margins- probate sellers, divorcing couples etc. People in negative equity will only be bankrupted if interest rates rise and remain so high as to be unnafordable.

The land supply is indeed finite, but it's nowhere near as finite as somewhere like Singapore. Hence my comment about planning laws. Same with 'affordable' houses. It's all down to government policy.
 
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