Operating 4x4 and trailer O license 'small trailer' exemption

J

Justme

Well-known member
JD450A said:
If a item is in use and mechanically attached to a trailer it is part of the drawn apparatus.... E.g cage sides affixed to trailer = part of it..... Cage sides taken off and put on the bed = load.

A spare tyre serves no useful purpose and is a load.... If removed it does not compromise the trailers function.

A set of ramps that are not affixed serve no useful purpose when the trailer is travelling.... If removed the loaded trailer would still function.

Cage sides would be part of the trailer as they are functioning as side raves and thus the trailer would not function without them.
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The ramps would still be "fitted" if they are in the carrying slots.

If "loose" items in the bed I would agree with you.

Most spare wheels would be bolted on & def serve a purpose.

Just like the under 2040kg for vehicles this is very unlikely to ever see the insides of a court. Most of the time in a stop they would look up the makers specs & go off that. You would have to have made big alterations I feel for the DVSA or police to be interested in it. But then they do seem to like the fine print.
 
B

Brendan

Well-known member
Justme said:
Not flogging no.
Actually genuinely interested as I said the other forum could not find many that actually complied.
Plus i might just need to buy one soon for the same reason.
Trying to remember if it was a combo of 3500kg tow capacity & under 2040kg unladen that was the issue.
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I have a 2016 wildtrack and so far, driving at car speed limits for the last 4 years no tickets. Probably gone and put a curse on that now but that's how it is.
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk 🐾
Justme said:
The ramps would still be "fitted" if they are in the carrying slots.
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No there not...... :rolleyes: Ride Red Rum, Ride...... How are they Fitted?

Under your theory a Container locked on a skeletal trailer would be part of the trailer.... which it's not. Or a Hooklift Bin would be part of the lorry.... which it's not.

Same as a Demountable Hiab Or a Moffet..... It's not considered part of the lorry. It's a Addition and technically a load.
 
B

Brendan

Well-known member

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J

Justme

Well-known member
Smiffy said:
This thread seems to have petered out so this should be a good one to discuss

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WOW

Driven on a car licence claim.

Vehicle is a 4200kg MAM & trailer is 7300kg MLPM total 11500kg.
Looks like the vehicle has a GTW of 8700kg
Even a pre 97 licence cant drive that as they are limited to 8250kg totalled plate weights on the C1E 107 licence.
Needs an unrestricted C1E or CE.

Rear axle limit is 3000kg (6000kg design weight so could be altered) & max nose weight 4300kg.

Down plate vehicle to 3500kg & a pre 19-01-2013 BE licence holder can drive it, but wont have much if any nose weight limit left.

Max payload has got to be about 4000kg to stay within all limits.

Oddly this might just be a vehicle I am interested in.
 
J

Justme

Well-known member
Brendan said:
To be fair that's a 4t vehicle, so already on an o license, now this on the other hand.....
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That trailer has got to be over 1020kg even stripped down to bare flat bed.

There used to be someone on ebay selling them but they seemed to have stopped.
 
F

fred

Well-known member
Justme said:
WOW

Driven on a car licence claim.

Vehicle is a 4200kg MAM & trailer is 7300kg MLPM total 11500kg.
Looks like the vehicle has a GTW of 8700kg
Even a pre 97 licence cant drive that as they are limited to 8250kg totalled plate weights on the C1E 107 licence.
Needs an unrestricted C1E or CE.

Rear axle limit is 3000kg (6000kg design weight so could be altered) & max nose weight 4300kg.

Down plate vehicle to 3500kg & a pre 19-01-2013 BE licence holder can drive it, but wont have much if any nose weight limit left.

Max payload has got to be about 4000kg to stay within all limits.

Oddly this might just be a vehicle I am interested in.
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its a mini artic, downplated on a BE car licence ?
 
J

Justme

Well-known member
fred said:
its a mini artic, downplated on a BE car licence ?
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If the vehicle is down plated to 3500kg only pre 19-01-2013 BE holders can drive it as the trailer is plated to 7300kg.
That would also seriously reduce its usable payload. Trailer axle is limited to 3000kg (but oddly has a design weight of 6000kg so could be upped), down plated vehicle 3500kg, actual empty weights must be about 3500kg to 4000kg leaving just 2500 to 3000kg for the load.

If its not down plated pre 97 licence holders cant drive it as its combined plated weight is over 8250kg.

Its a dogs dinner of a combination.
 
J

Justme

Well-known member
I would run it as a C1 with 4200kg for the vehicle & get trailer axle limit upped to its max of 6000kg & the 7300kg MLPM.

I would guess that the van is about 2500kg & the trailer 1500kg.

Leaving about 6200kg for the load.

However I think the van only has an 8700kg GTW so that would leave just 4700kg payload.

Before buying I would want unladen weight, unladed axle loads & clear copies of both weight plates.
 
F

fred

Well-known member
Justme said:
If the vehicle is down plated to 3500kg only pre 19-01-2013 BE holders can drive it as the trailer is plated to 7300kg.
That would also seriously reduce its usable payload. Trailer axle is limited to 3000kg (but oddly has a design weight of 6000kg so could be upped), down plated vehicle 3500kg, actual empty weights must be about 3500kg to 4000kg leaving just 2500 to 3000kg for the load.

If its not down plated pre 97 licence holders cant drive it as its combined plated weight is over 8250kg.

Its a dogs dinner of a combination.
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trailer and axle weights wouldnt be effected by the downplate.
 
B

Brendan

Well-known member
Justme said:
That trailer has got to be over 1020kg even stripped down to bare flat bed.

There used to be someone on ebay selling them but they seemed to have stopped.
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Gooseneck plant trailer is north of 10k plus getting a pickup converted to 5th wheel probably 2k plus
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk 🐾
fred said:
train weight is the pre-downplated weight.
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Actually that is not the case and depends entirely on how you fill the paperwork out.

Down plating the Tow Vehicle will directly relate to the train weight of the combination. Your Design weights will stay the same as will the axle weights. Classic example would be a 6x2 tractor unit down plated to 24t train weight in order to reduce tax......
 
J

Justme

Well-known member
fred said:
train weight is the pre-downplated weight.
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Yes but the licence holders has limits on the train weight too.

Post 19-01-2013 the MAM & MLPM total cant be over 7000kg for a BE licence.

I was actually on about the vehicles MAM.

The axle weights cant be over the down plated MAM of 3500kg.
 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member
Justme said:
Yes but the licence holders has limits on the train weight too.

Post 19-01-2013 the MAM & MLPM total cant be over 7000kg for a BE licence.

I was actually on about the vehicles MAM.

The axle weights cant be over the down plated MAM of 3500kg.
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Every commercial vehicle I have driven has axle limits totaling more than the mam.
Even a twin wheel transit has 2.5t+ back axle and 1.5t front axle
Renault 8 wheelers can have axle weights of upto 55t
 
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