Operating 4x4 and trailer O license 'small trailer' exemption

[fred]

ahh the old windows tax duel purpose vehicles...

Had a disco3 commercial few years ago, was a big argument whether it had van speed limits (registered as a van) or car. its over the dual purpose and car derived van limits.

Only diff between the disco commerical and a normal disco was the rear door windows were blanked.

joke really.

 

[Giles]

ahh the old windows tax duel purpose vehicles...

Had a disco3 commercial few years ago, was a big argument whether it had van speed limits (registered as a van) or car. its over the dual purpose and car derived van limits.

Only diff between the disco commerical and a normal disco was the rear door windows were blanked.

joke really.

Same going on with amoraks at moment the v6 one is heavier and some have had automated tickets for speeding because van limits applied by computer

 

[GazCro]

Same going on with amoraks at moment the v6 one is heavier and some have had automated tickets for speeding because van limits applied by computer

You're both looking at from the wrong viewpoint though. The point is commercial vehicles being used as private cars due to tax benefits if you have a business you can buy them through is what they don't want you doing. If you have van speed limits it's one less reason to do it. Its ok saying the rear windows are the only difference between disco and disco commercial but it's not, the difference is the purpose its bought for. V6 amarok is van speed limits so the computer isn't wrong is it.

 

[fred]

You're both looking at from the wrong viewpoint though. The point is commercial vehicles being used as private cars due to tax benefits if you have a business you can buy them through is what they don't want you doing. If you have van speed limits it's one less reason to do it. Its ok saying the rear windows are the only difference between disco and disco commercial but it's not, the difference is the purpose its bought for. V6 amarok is van speed limits so the computer isn't wrong is it.

not really.

its the taxation class nothing to do with use. You as a private individual could buy one for example.

 

[GazCro]

not really.

its the taxation class nothing to do with use. You as a private individual could buy one for example.

Yes you could and plenty do but you'd still have to do van speeds which was kinda the point I'm making.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Plenty of Disco 5s with rear seats fitted round here...makes a lovely motor for Zero cost to employee ....if folk can run a Porsche lectric for nowt...then I don't see any issue in running a disco for business truck....tax is a game...ask Fred

 

[fred]

Yes you could and plenty do but you'd still have to do van speeds which was kinda the point I'm making.

exactly defining a vehicle speed limit by a window is barmy.

 

[Lancs Lad]

exactly defining a vehicle speed limit by a window is barmy.

Had that argument late one night in VW Kombi on the A55 with Welsh plod....I won...3 points instead of court..so not big win but enough.

 

[GazCro]

exactly defining a vehicle speed limit by a window is barmy.

I won't disagree that it is but it's like a lot more laws in that they haven't kept up with other changes. Years ago you wouldn't have dreamed of having a tranny van or leaf sprung single cab pickup as a family car so there was no issue. Car derived vans were clear they were usually very little different from the estate car of the same model. Just because the vans and pickups have changed and got closer to the car derived definition by having windows and rear seats or being dual-purpose doesn't make the law barmy it's still clear enough tbh. It could do with updating but you could argue that across all vehicles regarding speed limits.

 

[GazCro]

Had that argument late one night in VW Kombi on the A55 with Welsh plod....I won...3 points instead of court..so not big win but enough.

Vw kombis are a bit of a funny one mind, even factory ordered kombis could be van or car speed limits, the only way to tell was by chassis number. I think all transporter kombis are van speed now.

 

[Brendan]

Had that argument late one night in VW Kombi on the A55 with Welsh plod....I won...3 points instead of court..so not big win but enough.

Only the mini bus is car limits the single and double cabs are van limits as no 4x4 and not enough side glass. There is a 4x4 option but think the unladen weight is too high

 

[Lancs Lad]

Vw kombis are a bit of a funny one mind, even factory ordered kombis could be van or car speed limits, the only way to tell was by chassis number. I think all transporter kombis are van speed now.

Aye and car classification for BIK now sadly.

 

[pettsy]

I used to have an ex-aa T4 Kombi before crew vans were so popular. I really struggled to get it insured at the time because it had 5 seats.

 

[Justme]

Its not being it's exactly the same. In absolutely every way.
The fact there is a place to carry them makes absolutely not the slightest difference.
Nor does them being present make slightest difference to how the trailer functions on the road. They are not bolted pinned or otherwise permanently secured to the trailer. They are a tool enabling the trailer to be loaded. As much as a ratchet strap is a tool to secure the loads. And quite simply whilst I know my suggestion is silly by pointing it out you have merely proved my point as one scenario cannot be the opposite of the other. Either both are true or neither are true.

On one they are a pure load to be used on the other.

On the other they are part of the use of that other.

Cage sides come off just as simple as removing a clip or two so are they not also part of the trailer?

 

[Justme]

All 4x4 double cabs

Thats interesting as there was a similar thread on another forum where it was hard to find one that had a listed unladen under the limit once you had all the standard extras on.

 

[JD450A]

On one they are a pure load to be used on the other.

On the other they are part of the use of that other.

Cage sides come off just as simple as removing a clip or two so are they not also part of the trailer?

Would think you have answered yourself.

If a item is in use and mechanically attached to a trailer it is part of the drawn apparatus.... E.g cage sides affixed to trailer = part of it..... Cage sides taken off and put on the bed = load.

A spare tyre serves no useful purpose and is a load.... If removed it does not compromise the trailers function.

A set of ramps that are not affixed serve no useful purpose when the trailer is travelling.... If removed the loaded trailer would still function.

Cage sides would be part of the trailer as they are functioning as side raves and thus the trailer would not function without them.

 

[Brendan]

Thats interesting as there was a similar thread on another forum where it was hard to find one that had a listed unladen under the limit once you had all the standard extras on.

Are you still flogging this dead horse

 

[Maxus]

The laws in this country are ridiculous. What's the point if no one can agree what they even mean. How are we suppose to follow them?!

 

[GazCro]

The laws in this country are ridiculous. What's the point if no one can agree what they even mean. How are we suppose to follow them?!

I think that's why they started using MAM as the idea was instead of needing to weigh everything they could just add up everything off weights on plates. Was ok until police started trying to do everyone with 3.5 ton trailers behind vans etc which couldn't tow 3.5 ton even when trailers were empty.

 

[Justme]

Are you still flogging this dead horse

Not flogging no.
Actually genuinely interested as I said the other forum could not find many that actually complied.
Plus i might just need to buy one soon for the same reason.
Trying to remember if it was a combo of 3500kg tow capacity & under 2040kg unladen that was the issue.