Druidic Dabblings and General Twaddle !!

[AusDave]

Hi Dave ... have you not seen the cooler that came with this package of bits?
It was plumbed into the system before so assumed it'd be a good idea to include it again .....View attachment 35511 View attachment 35512View attachment 35510 View attachment 35513 View attachment 35514

there's a fair VD pump on the arse end of this Deutz and is gonna be pushing some oil around
View attachment 35523 View attachment 35522
still researching how to plumb it for load sensing, if anyone wants to chip in
View attachment 35521

Hi Druid.
My Haulotte runs a similar Deutz motor with a variety of large VD pumps and gear pumps and doesn't have as big hydraulic cooler nor 170 litres of oil. When I run it on the road especially uphill the engine is at full revs and it's all hydraulic drive and it never gets hot.

The point is what specifically are you using this power pack for and what durations at what power output are you running the pack at?
Unlike the previous application, where I assume the whole assembly was enclosed, you are running it with good airflow all around if I'm not mistaken. If you're running the existing cooler as is, just put the fan on a pot and run it as slow as possible and see how it goes. I'd also make sure in your cold climate you could turn the fan off so your 170 litres of oil has a chance to get warm enough to flow well.

 

[JD450A]

Next he will be putting a piece of cardboard Infront to stop it cooling to much

Don't insinuate he would do such a thing....

He'll be buying the coil from a immersion heater to run to keep the oil warm

 

[V8Druid]

Hi Druid.
My Haulotte runs a similar Deutz motor with a variety of large VD pumps and gear pumps and doesn't have as big hydraulic cooler nor 170 litres of oil. When I run it on the road especially uphill the engine is at full revs and it's all hydraulic drive and it never gets hot.

The point is what specifically are you using this power pack for and what durations at what power output are you running the pack at?
Unlike the previous application, where I assume the whole assembly was enclosed, you are running it with good airflow all around if I'm not mistaken. If you're running the existing cooler as is, just put the fan on a pot and run it as slow as possible and see how it goes. I'd also make sure in your cold climate you could turn the fan off so your 170 litres of oil has a chance to get warm enough to flow well.

all fair comments Dave .... and duly noted ... the reasoning behind thermo control of the fan was to prevent it running unless it was needed....sounds like it's unlikely to ever get that warm BTLs ... but it'd be there if it ever does .... thanks for the input .. all opinions (well almost all ) gratefully received

 

[Shovelhands]

all fair comments Dave .... and duly noted ... the reasoning behind thermo control of the fan was to prevent it running unless it was needed....sounds like it's unlikely to ever get that warm BTLs ... but it'd be there if it ever does .... thanks for the input .. all opinions (well almost all ) gratefully received

Just wire it up and put a switch on it, keep an eye on temps and if it gets out of hand you can manually fire up the fan.
I’ve got a oil cooler that I retrofitted which has its own temp sensor and control box, runs a reverse cycle too which keeps the rad clean. But I can do a fair bit of work before it’s up to temps that require the fan to run. But once it’s up to that temp then the oil never recovers and performance drops off a cliff, hence why I fitted the cooler….
But honestly, are you going to run this thing hard and long enough to get the oil that hot? Just running through the cooler alone will dissipate some heat.

 

[V8Druid]

Just wire it up and put a switch on it, keep an eye on temps and if it gets out of hand you can manually fire up the fan.
I’ve got a oil cooler that I retrofitted which has its own temp sensor and control box, runs a reverse cycle too which keeps the rad clean. But I can do a fair bit of work before it’s up to temps that require the fan to run. But once it’s up to that temp then the oil never recovers and performance drops off a cliff, hence why I fitted the cooler….
But honestly, are you going to run this thing hard and long enough to get the oil that hot? Just running through the cooler alone will dissipate some heat.

you're probably right James .. it'd be rare to run it long/hard enough to get that hot ... but ! ... you lot know me by now .. cover all eventualities ... It arrived with it and is better in situ, than sat in a box ... for the cost and effort, auto thermo control, is not a huge task ... would be the same wiring for a simple switch and the oil'd run through the cooler anyway, just no forced cooling, usually.


Now if me hamster juice delivery'd just arrive, I could get on and do summat .... actually dry ATM ..... was some bit monsoon on/off here yesterday .... every time I stuck me nose outside the house/box, it absolutely lashed it down .. got a fuel filter to mount and some delivery/return lines to consolidate into the tank neck.

 

[Shovelhands]

This one has the temp sensor/switch mounted directly in the cooler. Was there no temp sensor/switch in it anywhere originally?

 

[Gecko]

. It arrived with it and is better in situ, than sat in a box ..

If it were me and I had to pay retail for the cooler/fan, I'd probably leave it off until proven it was needed.
Given it's on hand, it seems silly not to fit it. (Also, if you stick it in a box it'll take up space on a shelf and that will just annoy you!).

I assume that engine's good for somewhere around 150hp (?) - that's a lot of heat if something stops cooperating.
A quick calc says if all the power gets dumped to the oil (stalled tool or some other failure), 170l will go from 20 to 100C in 4min

Oil heating calculator

Oil heating calculator

biopowered.co.uk

 

[craig]

question for you learned fellas to express opinions on....

I need to control the oil cooler's fan motor on the unit I'm building and there's no temp sensor in the tank.

have found these on fleabay ...

Pardon our interruption...

the suggested installation method on these is a bit 'heath' to say the least.
They are however the only adjustable units I can find, so I can set it at say 60-70C ... the level gauge in the tank also has a thermometer built into it, so this'd be easily settable, where ever I want it, using the inbuilt thermometer, to cross check it's dial, which I'd be well surprised at, to find it accurate.

plenty of fixed 190-200F threaded sensors/switches I could screw into a spare port in the tank, but the temp is too high at 90C ... and can't find anything lower.
tank doesn't appear to be a pressurised item as the filler is vented.

Thoughts for installation would be to drill a plug with a sufficiently large hole to allow the larger diameter probe to pass almost fully through, then fill the hole behind it with JB Weld or similar and perhaps a little around the inner part where the probe exits the plug - 'volcano' shaped ..
maybe even countersink the inner end of the hole a little too ... might also tap the hole to help the JB key into the plug ....

what do you lot think of the plan and the adjustable unit .... and I know it's Ying Tong, yet again, but can't find anything like it in the UK

Thermostats

Pearson Hydraulics Ltd offers a range of complimentary thermostats to suit OMT Group oil coolers and other leading manufacturers.Please contact our sales team on +44 1522 846846 should you not find the product or technical information you require on our website.

www.pearson-hyds.co.uk

 

[Smiffy]

If it were me and I had to pay retail for the cooler/fan, I'd probably leave it off until proven it was needed.
Given it's on hand, it seems silly not to fit it. (Also, if you stick it in a box it'll take up space on a shelf and that will just annoy you!).

I assume that engine's good for somewhere around 150hp (?) - that's a lot of heat if something stops cooperating.
A quick calc says if all the power gets dumped to the oil (stalled tool or some other failure), 170l will go from 20 to 100C in 4min

Oil heating calculator

Oil heating calculator

biopowered.co.uk

I think 4 minutes is enough time to notice an absolute failure to be fair

 

[Gecko]

I think 4 minutes is enough time to notice an absolute failure to be fair

You're making two assumptions:

• The oil is cold​
• you are close by baby sitting it​

My 13 c-hp (chinese horse power) log splitter holds 20l and the cylinder is too hot to rest your hand on after 30min and it's running 50% duty cycle max.

 

[AusDave]

Have I missed something? What is this hydraulic power pack specifically going to do?

 

[Shovelhands]

Have I missed something? What is this hydraulic power pack specifically going to do?

Sit in reserve for emergencies and testing the odd cylinder or motor……

 

[Smiffy]

You're making two assumptions:

• The oil is cold​
• you are close by baby sitting it​

My 13 c-hp (chinese horse power) log splitter holds 20l and the cylinder is too hot to rest your hand on after 30min and it's running 50% duty cycle max.

But this will of course have automatic. Remote operated off switch. Backed up by wonder lead safety off. And as a last resort a manual safety on a piece of string could be added.

Plus druid is in Wales so it will of course be water cooled whether he likes it or not.

 

[V8Druid]

This one has the temp sensor/switch mounted directly in the cooler. Was there no temp sensor/switch in it anywhere originally?

View attachment 35527

no James just a 1" bsp port in and out ... that's it ...
Might be able to tee in one of those units that Craig has flagged up, in the incomer, but the site doesn't provide any spec.s ... or it could get screwed into the spare tank port if it's 1/2" bsp .... wouldn't add up to a great deal more than the adjustable and a probe well. ...... what's the non return do in your circuit?

 

[V8Druid]

If it were me and I had to pay retail for the cooler/fan, I'd probably leave it off until proven it was needed.
Given it's on hand, it seems silly not to fit it. (Also, if you stick it in a box it'll take up space on a shelf and that will just annoy you!).

I assume that engine's good for somewhere around 150hp (?) - that's a lot of heat if something stops cooperating.
A quick calc says if all the power gets dumped to the oil (stalled tool or some other failure), 170l will go from 20 to 100C in 4min

Oil heating calculator

Oil heating calculator

biopowered.co.uk

 

[V8Druid]

But this will of course have automatic. Remote operated off switch. Backed up by wonder lead safety off. And as a last resort a manual safety on a piece of string could be added.

Plus druid is in Wales so it will of course be water cooled whether he likes it or not.

now now ..... I sense some level of piss being taken

yet AGAIN!

 

[Shovelhands]

no James just a 1" bsp port in and out ... that's it ...
Might be able to tee in one of those units that Craig has flagged up, in the incomer, but the site doesn't provide any spec.s ... or it could get screwed into the spare tank port if it's 1/2" bsp .... wouldn't add up to a great deal more than the adjustable and a probe well. ...... what's the non return do in your circuit?

The valve is a bypass safety. Any restriction or flow beyond what can reasonably get through the rad gets bypassed. Save blowing the rad up!

I’m sure you could add a sensor/switch into a tee, or get a long barrel nut and drill a port in the side and tap it to suit a sensor/switch. Or get a test port tee, remove the test port and tap that out to suit?

 

[Lancs Lad]

Have I missed something? What is this hydraulic power pack specifically going to do?

Ahar the question that shalt not be asked

 

[Smiffy]

yet AGAIN!

Not atall

It is simply great appreciation for a job done properly

 

[Gecko]

Ah - smaller than I guessed.
3.2l
58kW (or 78hp)