Your thoughts now on Tiltrotators.

[V8Druid]

Helical tilt isnt comparable to a tiltrotator?
It is in so much as it does half of the job

not what I said Kev ... s' not comparable to a ram op. tilt hitch, cost - wise or engineering-wise

it's an unfair comparison ... helical tilt is never going to be cheap and compared to a ram and some bracketry, are one a whole different plane, production/manufacturing-wise

 

[hiluxman]

absolutely ... 's just I've never had the opportunity for any prolonged time with rollers to get my head around the difference ... and as you say the left foot feels redundant (which it is)
(and for those wondering WTF we're on about ... buttons select the function and yer trotter determines at what speed it operates, via the pedal operated prop. control of flow)
with the 'posh' set up the roller determines both motion selection and speed control

So your foot pedal isn't 2 way? As in on tilt it operates both left and right.

Ie press button for left tilt then pedal to operate, then if you want to go back your to press right tilt then operate pedal?

 

[V8Druid]

So your foot pedal isn't 2 way? As in on tilt it operates both left and right.

Ie press button for left tilt then pedal to operate, then if you want to go back your to press right tilt then operate pedal?

correct -
sort of -
the pedal is a proportional two way circuit, but--
I use the pedal only as a one way, which then feeds all the cetop3,s manifold, in the VA-r, which determines what gets what and when --
I can operate any, or all of the three motions/circuits at any one time -
tilt/rotate/aux-[grab/tongs/etc.]
the pedal determines how much flow - hence operating speed

which is basically how a 'full fat' works except it has full flow available through P & T (one way) and the cetop3,s prop. solenoids on the manifold determine what gets what and when--
the prop. function of the cetop's solenoid determines how much flow and there-fore speed of function. (that's why you can operate two different functions at differing speeds on 'full fat' install)

 

[Furniss]

not what I said Kev ... s' not comparable to a ram op. tilt hitch, cost - wise or engineering-wise

Yeah I know....I was being flippant as a user I dont really care how it does it - kinda.

 

[Vinpetrol]

I have 2 now , one on 2008 Komatsu duck and the other on 2023 kx027-4 kubota. The one on the duck I bought 10 years ago used and it’s still going really well. It’s a direct mount . The one on the kubota is a year old and cost a third of the price of the machine. It’s also direct mount. The tilty is very handy on my price work and does speed the process up.time will tell if it pays for itself .
I’m not actually convinced that half the ones I see fitted actually do pay for themselves .
Also lots of them fitted on smaller machines are definitley not specced properly .
I’m fairly old school when it comes to plant and I remember the early ones I drove never had quick hitches. I knew from back then that when you fitted a hitch you changed the geometry of the digger and that break out force was effected and you could also clatter the cab with the hitch and bucket on . That didn’t happen with just bucket ( apart from 806c jcb that could hit the front windscreen ! )
As handy as a tiltrotator is it changes the way the manufacturer intended it to work so in my book this should be minimised as much as possible . Both of mine are direct mount . it takes 5 mins to take the one off the kubota so I can easily switch it back if I want to use attachments .
My case cx130 doesn’t have a tilty. I can strip sites very fast with it and also reinstate really quickly. I know a tilty would change the way the machine handles and for the work that it does it would not pay for itself .
As said previously a basic budget tilty that tilts and rotates would be well received .
More thought into how machines are specced should also be considered . We’ve all seen pics of machines with a big tilty and big bucket . You can see straight away the machine won’t handle it properly .

 

[DaveDCB]

It transpires he also had alot more machines and money in the background too from what I've been told recently.

Which ones and how much? Love a good internet conspiracy story

 

[doobin]

all seen pics of machines with a big tilty and big bucket . You can see straight away the machine won’t handle it properly .

Worse than that, I’ve driven one on a dig day! Horrible setup, and that was full fat.

i can see the benefits to full fat control but there’s no need for it on a little machine especially when most come with twin aux services these days. If bobcat can fit a pair of prop cetops to my machine for £1200 at the factory, why do engcon want £8k more for doing the same on a tilty?

 

[DaveDCB]

11.5k for my ec206 fitted with svab control back in 2016… no way on earth should they now be double that, especially now Engcon have ramped up production! Just money grabbing, and don’t tell me they didn’t make any money back then either!!

 

[Furniss]

11.5k for my ec206 fitted with svab control back in 2016… no way on earth should they now be double that, especially now Engcon have ramped up production! Just money grabbing, and don’t tell me they didn’t make any money back then either!!

Did that include fitting and buckets ?

I paid £20k

Ec206b
Ss9
Detachable gripper
Top Hitch
3 buckets (1 x engcon grader 2 spurious)
Fitted

 

[DaveDCB]

Fitted 3x buckets were 1600 extra.
No gripper as I don’t think it was a easily detachable one back then..

 

[JD450A]

Did that include fitting and buckets ?

I paid £20k

Ec206b
Ss9
Detachable gripper
Top Hitch
3 buckets (1 x engcon grader 2 spurious)
Fitted

A grand increase in price per year is perfectly acceptable. Looking forward to them being 25k by 2030

 

[TiltyShaun]

So your foot pedal isn't 2 way? As in on tilt it operates both left and right.

Ie press button for left tilt then pedal to operate, then if you want to go back your to press right tilt then operate pedal?

The foot pedal can work two way, but as V8 said, you just get used to pressing buttons. It was useful when I had an electrical wiring issue on one of the buttons. It stopped tilting in one direction due to a loose connection. Was able to us the foot pedal two way to keep in operational, but boy did that start to take some thinking as when you added in rotate the button where reversed

 

[Furniss]

A grand increase in price per year is perfectly acceptable. Looking forward to them being 25k by 2030

Not like for like but I hear you.

 

[V8Druid]

The foot pedal can work two way, but as V8 said, you just get used to pressing buttons. It was useful when I had an electrical wiring issue on one of the buttons. It stopped tilting in one direction due to a loose connection. Was able to us the foot pedal two way to keep in operational, but boy did that start to take some thinking as when you added in rotate the button where reversed

that's very interesting Shaun .... would love to know what control valves are in that ... cetop3,s are one way flow -- P in and T out .. guessing some form of diverter set up in yours, which would in theory accept reverse flow as it is merely a diverter, where as the cetop3s do the variation in flow direction.
can you operate both functions simultaneously ?

 

[CPS]

Cetops will work back the front although not recommended as back pressure will damage certain types.
Your standard closed port CE top will work back the front

 

[DaveDCB]

How has this thread moved onto cetops already

 

[CPS]

How has this thread moved onto cetops already

What ? Are you serious? Im shocked it took 5 pages to get here

 

[DaveDCB]

Hadn’t realised it was 5 pages in to be honest!!

 

[V8Druid]

Cetops will work back the front although not recommended as back pressure will damage certain types.
Your standard closed port CE top will work back the front

interesting, and can well see why, but no matter which end of the manifold the oil comes from, ultimately it is the solenoids and valves that determine where it ends up

 

[Furniss]

Google cetop and @V8Druid comes up !