Your thoughts now on Tiltrotators.

[CPS]

Hi Folks,

Just thought Id ask everyones thoughts on tiltrotators now?
I know tiltys have been discussed many times on here, and its probably 15 plus years since the old forum was started and alot has changed since the early days.
I for one have seen a change in how things are done, both from a sales point of view and how end users are doing things.

This is just a bit of general feedback for myself, mainly to see how people's thoughts have changed.

So, going forward what do people want to see from a tiltrotator manufacturer?
Do you want to latest and greatest? Or a more affordable price?

Do you what to see more Quickchange/EC-oil type systems?..... is that a must?

With more and more OEMs and dealers getting involved do you see this as a good thing or a case of leave it to the tiltrotator specialists?

Of course i have my own views, options and thoughts on the future of tiltrotators, but we haven't had a good tilty debate here in a while

So get talking

 

[Thomas7740]

More affordable price would be the main one. Would like to have one, and can see the benefits in some areas of the work we do, but at current prices it just doesn’t stack up for us. You’re realistically talking 12,14k for a tiltrotair for a 3tonner, would pay better to spend that on another machine

I think a tilting scandi style grader will be of benefit to me, at a fraction of the price.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Hi Folks,

Just thought Id ask everyones thoughts on tiltrotators now?
I know tiltys have been discussed many times on here, and its probably 15 plus years since the old forum was started and alot has changed since the early days.
I for one have seen a change in how things are done, both from a sales point of view and how end users are doing things.

This is just a bit of general feedback for myself, mainly to see how people's thoughts have changed.

So, going forward what do people want to see from a tiltrotator manufacturer?
Do you want to latest and greatest? Or a more affordable price?

Do you what to see more Quickchange/EC-oil type systems?..... is that a must?

With more and more OEMs and dealers getting involved do you see this as a good thing or a case of leave it to the tiltrotator specialists?

Of course i have my own views, options and thoughts on the future of tiltrotators, but we haven't had a good tilty debate here in a while

So get talking

Certainly not a qualified long standing user here by any stretch of the imagination like some of the lads on here...
Only used EC and OQ for small periods.
I joined up this forum out of interest for tiltys and attachments initially, I've learnt a huge amount from observing the threads on here.
Purely from a financial outsider view they still seem incredibly expensive and basically appear to be 50% of smaller machines value.
I find myself constantly checking the working end of any machine I see and to spot a proper tilty is rare as the proverbial here still.

Seems that manufacturers maybe starting to incorporate them finally (looking at the yellow Stafford men)..surely a machine with factory built/fitted tilty and control system from new would be attractive... Some of the expensive new tilty installs seem a bit "after market bits let's get this to work" style to ...only my option no offence intended...

My two pennyworth.

 

[Monkeybusiness]

A mate had a quote off one of the big players for a full control system setup with a grading bucket on a 13 tonner and it was over £35k plus vat fitted… (He didn’t buy it!).
They’ve obviously gained a bit of traction in the uk now but prices look mental (and I’m an owner/user of them!). I certainly wouldn’t invest at that sort of money.

 

[doobin]

They need to be cheaper. They’ve doubled in the last five years.

There is absolutely no reason for a basic setup to cost half of a new micro digger, let alone as much as!

New diggers pretty much all can be specced to have two joystick controlled aux lines available, so a basic tilty controlled by the host machine should be available at not silly money.

I fitted my secondhand unit by myself in around five minutes. If they want to sell more make it so they are as easy as buying a breaker.

 

[Furniss]

The sooner we get to a sensible price for a base setup the better, then spec what you need from that, prices dropping is inevitable with more manufacturers coming onboard.
I would say approaching 1/2 the outfits round here have a tilty machine or 2 in the arsenal now .... having used one 8months or so I can see how its going to be difficult to compete without one in a few years unfortunately.

Regarding fitters ....basic plug and play stuff then yeah why not manufacturers get involved and save end user some money and if you have special requirements then go to the specialists.

Personally its hard to envisage going back to the chew of the old way, esp if you work on your own a fair bit, but 20k .... roll on the competition .

 

[hiluxman]

Cost is definitely a big point.

Can't deny that they make things easier.

Customer mentality is another thing to stop you spending on one too.
They either don't like the additional cost on day rate or just don't get the purpose, a 2ft with teeth will do everything....won't it?

Those doing price work know in their own figures if it's a benefit or not for outlay/productivity.

 

[APhillips]

Not something I have heaps of experience in using myself but certainly take a lot of interest in the market and what each manufacturer is up to.

From a specification point of view I do think Engcon have got a few really nice features that to me make them stand out, Build height is one of the better ones, I think the easily detachable gripper is a great idea, the ability to quickly drop 80 - 100kg for certain tasks would make a big difference to how it feels and the fact they are fitting EC-Oil as standard really is a big factor, I am aware it is not quite 'apples for apples' when compared to the OpenS guys but it can only help with the overall life of a tiltrotator, ensuring people drop it off for certain jobs instead of 'making do' (I do however prefer the OpenS system). Also as someone who would be looking in the 8 - 10ton bracket I think the EC209 is a sweet spot for weight and built height, the R3 and X12 which generally cover a wider range of machine weights and they are both a decent chunk more weight, particularly with a gripper.

From an excavator manufacturer point of view I think the direction Wacker Neuson have taken with the new EW100 and its ability (from my understanding) to connect and control each manufacturers tiltrotator directly is the best option I have seen so far. I don't really see the point in excavator manufacturers building their own but I do feel that making the excavators easier to accept a tiltrotator from an experienced manufacturer a big selling point.

At Mecalac we have a factory fitted option which is supplied by Rototilt and features our own connect quick hitch, after using this on our old demo 9MWR I am really not a fan, its not the Rototilt element but the implementation of our hitch, ironically what makes it great as a stand alone hitch makes it worse under a tilty as it adds alot of build height, its also quite a heavy unit and you certainly can feel this, the machine felt a bit dead and numb with it fitted but came back to its lively self once it was dropped off.

Tiltrotators certainly aren't cheap and I think a cost effective solution would certainly help grow their popularity which would ultimately end up with people then moving to the higher spec option as they get familiar and comfortable with how they can improve their work and how they price thier work but it would require a change in how the country thinks about construction, the fixation on hire rates and 'price' doesn't do anyone any favours.

 

[Furniss]

Not something I have heaps of experience in using myself but certainly take a lot of interest in the market and what each manufacturer is up to.

From a specification point of view I do think Engcon have got a few really nice features that to me make them stand out, Build height is one of the better ones, I think the easily detachable gripper is a great idea, the ability to quickly drop 80 - 100kg for certain tasks would make a big difference to how it feels and the fact they are fitting EC-Oil as standard really is a big factor, I am aware it is not quite 'apples for apples' when compared to the OpenS guys but it can only help with the overall life of a tiltrotator, ensuring people drop it off for certain jobs instead of 'making do' (I do however prefer the OpenS system). Also as someone who would be looking in the 8 - 10ton bracket I think the EC209 is a sweet spot for weight and built height, the R3 and X12 which generally cover a wider range of machine weights and they are both a decent chunk more weight, particularly with a gripper.

From an excavator manufacturer point of view I think the direction Wacker Neuson have taken with the new EW100 and its ability (from my understanding) to connect and control each manufacturers tiltrotator directly is the best option I have seen so far. I don't really see the point in excavator manufacturers building their own but I do feel that making the excavators easier to accept a tiltrotator from an experienced manufacturer a big selling point.

At Mecalac we have a factory fitted option which is supplied by Rototilt and features our own connect quick hitch, after using this on our old demo 9MWR I am really not a fan, its not the Rototilt element but the implementation of our hitch, ironically what makes it great as a stand alone hitch makes it worse under a tilty as it adds alot of build height, its also quite a heavy unit and you certainly can feel this, the machine felt a bit dead and numb with it fitted but came back to its lively self once it was dropped off.

Tiltrotators certainly aren't cheap and I think a cost effective solution would certainly help grow their popularity which would ultimately end up with people then moving to the higher spec option as they get familiar and comfortable with how they can improve their work and how they price thier work but it would require a change in how the country thinks about construction, the fixation on hire rates and 'price' doesn't do anyone any favours.

Good post ...gripper on s40 is 45kg and its difficult to notice on 6t tbf but yes its a great feature and on s45 and up brilliantly quick and useful to drop off.

 

[V8Druid]

my first encounter/sight of a tiltrotator was back in 2014, not long after buying the Hydrema ...
Rob Taylor (atlasrob on CEF / @Hydremaduck on here) bought a second hand unit for his Atlas duck ...
and I was hooked on the concept

never seen or heard of 'em before, but I REALLY wanted the facility they gave - more for handling/forks/grab, than digging with ...
no way was I gonna pay more for one than the 'Drema'd cost me and s/hand units were like hen's teeth back then and still very costly. ...
Hence setting about creating my own version ..
getting info. on 'em back in '14 was uphill and Rob and Ollie Kitchin helped enormously with pix/info. and loads of Q.s fired at them. Was still pretty much a black art though, when it came to control systems and took me a long time to get my head around just how they were fed and controlled, plus how the hell I was gonna be able to replicate some sort of control system for mine.

given all I learnt and what I eventually created, in hindsight I may have done a few things slightly differently now, with all the info. that's now pretty readily available ...
BUT -- given the silly prices they're still commanding, I'd still build one and off the shelf rotator units are so easily acquired now, rather than having to come up with a few off the wall ideas I had to, back then

Mine cost me circa 1800 quid to build - rams, cetop3s, plumbing, hitch valve, s/h Hill QH that got heavily modified, new stick top, a big tump of hyd. fittings, the basic materials to hold all the bits in place and including the 50 quid the original rotator slew ring, I had off me scrappy, cost me, many years earlier

Yes R&D is not cheap, neither are the facilities that these are built in, but ..... I personally think that they are waaaaaaaaaaay over priced, considering the volumes that they now sell in, despite their el stupido prices.

 

[Nick...]

Surely the Chinese will be building these at a lot cheaper price,maybe doing so already
nick...

 

[DaveDCB]

So I’ve had mine 8 years now, and granted I don’t do anywhere near the work with it as I would have done when I was contracting, but it’s still used and abused!

Would I always have a tilty - yes

Would I pay current prices - no(if I stuck in the same weight class I’d just get my current tilty overhauled)

Do I care what colour it is - no

Would I recommend to folk - absolutely

Ecoil etc - yeah sure if it’s thrown in foc, but it really isn’t needed for day to day work, getting off the machine once in a while is never a bad thing, I can drop the tilty on/off in under a minute so no loss in production really. If it’s taken off it stays off, which only really is for bulk digging or hammer work.

What needs to change - ordering as a full package directly from the dealers when buying a new machine would really help, I know afew manufactures are going down this line and it’s for the best imo , you can’t really beat factory fit.

S type hitches standardised on all machines would be mega!

 

[Grahams]

I have tiltrotators on all my excavators, but two were second hand and two are on buttons rather than full system (other is through the manufacturers system). I only do price work and the systems I have work financially for me, but I don’t see how anyone on hourly rate can make them pay, especially if the go for a top spec system.
I am surprised a basic reasonable priced system has not emerged, none of it appears rocket science. The main obstacle appears to be building enough customer confidence you will still be about next year when backup is needed, but if the likes of JCB or one of the other big excavator manufacturers backed it that would overcome that issue

 

[Smiffy]

Regarding fitters ....basic plug and play stuff then yeah why not manufacturers get involved and save end user some money and if you have special requirements then go to the specialists.

Tbh there is so little left to improve on machines or at least so little to revolutionise them then surely twin aux lines on the joysticks will have to become one of the selling points. If not tilty pre equipped. After all they are already quick enough with revs up to a handful, they are powerful enough they will drag themselves round in circles when trying to dig and tip themselves over picking things up. Not alot else to do.

 

[Left hooker]

my first encounter/sight of a tiltrotator was back in 2014, not long after buying the Hydrema ...
Rob Taylor (atlasrob on CEF / @Hydremaduck on here) bought a second hand unit for his Atlas duck ...
and I was hooked on the concept

never seen or heard of 'em before, but I REALLY wanted the facility they gave - more for handling/forks/grab, than digging with ...
no way was I gonna pay more for one than the 'Drema'd cost me and s/hand units were like hen's teeth back then and still very costly. ...
Hence setting about creating my own version ..
getting info. on 'em back in '14 was uphill and Rob and Ollie Kitchin helped enormously with pix/info. and loads of Q.s fired at them. Was still pretty much a black art though, when it came to control systems and took me a long time to get my head around just how they were fed and controlled, plus how the hell I was gonna be able to replicate some sort of control system for mine.

given all I learnt and what I eventually created, in hindsight I may have done a few things slightly differently now, with all the info. that's now pretty readily available ...
BUT -- given the silly prices they're still commanding, I'd still build one and off the shelf rotator units are so easily acquired now, rather than having to come up with a few off the wall ideas I had to, back then

Mine cost me circa 1800 quid to build - rams, cetop3s, plumbing, hitch valve, s/h Hill QH that got heavily modified, new stick top, a big tump of hyd. fittings, the basic materials to hold all the bits in place and including the 50 quid the original rotator slew ring, I had off me scrappy, cost me, many years earlier

Yes R&D is not cheap, neither are the facilities that these are built in, but ..... I personally think that they are waaaaaaaaaaay over priced, considering the volumes that they now sell in, despite their el stupido prices.

What year did you buy the Dane (s)?

 

[sjs5060]

doesn't seem bad value

 

[6feetdown]

I'm a year in.
Cost definitely needs looking at.
Be great if manufacturers bought into the plug and play.
I'd never used 1 until I bought mine had loads of great advice before buying from the guys on here, but experience is key.
Mine lacks / would be better if:-
1 Had a top hitch
2 Unable to drop it off as fixed pipes (rectifyable)
3 Has the longer dipper would be better with the short 1
4 Dedicated control unit cradles built into machines
5 Cost of buckets / attachments is high
6 S40 is heavy on a sub 3t machine
7 Extra hydraulic lines would be better
8 A better construction method to alleviate limited dig depth on narrow trenches, Nox looks good but i don't know enough to pass judgement
9 With the R1 I wish it had a button to automatically return to a pre set position e.g 90 degrees to dipper, I think R2 up they have it?

Use 1 and jump in a machine without, you realise straight away how useful they are.
The time saved in not having to constantly move / damage on uneven ground.

 

[Thomas7740]

In terms of cost, are any of the other less known brands like smp etc cheaper? Has anyone priced Versaffix?

Tiltrotator for Excavators | Excavate at any angle | Versaffix

Versaffix specialises in the production, distribution, and servicing of a comprehensive selection of tiltrotator products, accompanied by a range of complementary attachments.

versaffix.com

 

[V8Druid]

Surely the Chinese will be building these at a lot cheaper price,maybe doing so already
nick...

they do .... but for not big amounts less than the competition - why would they

 

[V8Druid]

What year did you buy the Dane (s)?

second of January 2016 I came down to you Stu ... unreal, eh!!