Welding setup

[V8Druid]

And Armageddon proof or more that your not at the whim of shitty overhead supply's like us
Somat nice about the purr of a 3ph Genny

our leccy ain't the best here either ... trips a couple of times a week and always keep the little 2kva Hodna handy in the winter to run the heating, if it goes off for any length of time ... just plug the boiler into it and smile
the Iveco in me genny runs like a swiss watch and in the silent-pack, barely hear it in the house

 

[Gecko]

Welding is something I've been meaning to get my head around for a while,

In Oz, the trade schools offer hobby courses after-hours or in the off-season.
Do you guys have anything like that?
It's a fantastic way to flatten the learning curve

 

[Steve]

In Oz, the trade schools offer hobby courses after-hours or in the off-season.
Do you guys have anything like that?
It's a fantastic way to flatten the learning curve

Yes our local college does hobby courses & qualification courses. I had been welding for years before I enrolled on a qualification course to find out I actually can’t weld at all
I really recommend the courses as when you break down the costs it works out cheaper than using your own equipment to practice with & the bonus of having someone balling in your ear where you are going wrong.

 

[Old Operator]

I sort of went through this a while ago, looked at an oil cooled 'Oxford' welder vs. a modern inverter. I only have single phase & not that wonderful a supply without a lot of work/money. I found that the oil cooled units were very power hungry (Needing at least a 20A dedicated socket) & only comprable to an industrial machine for smoothness if on 3ph anyway.
I went with the Pro Arc 135 inverter from R Tech (3 yr no quibble warranty) - have it running from a 16A 'blue' industrial socket wired from a disused 16A feed that once run a bathroom heater, (as nusance plug fuse blowing likely if off 13A plug on 3.25 rods)
A thing to look out for is the quoted 'open circuit voltage' (OCV) - if you want to use low hydrogen E7018 rods, for strong root runs in thick material, vertical welding, or indeed other special rods eg. Hardox. To get these rods to start needs an OCV of about 80v.
I was told that once a combined thickness of 18mm plus is to be welded the E7018's are good, & if say T butt welding 10mm plate to 12mm these thicknesses add together to be above the 18mm. There is a wealth of help & knowledge here https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
covers far more than mig. To see what I tackled look at the Gopher Restoration on the vintage section here. I did do a short welding course about 30 yrs ago during 90's slump when on dole.
I bought a cheap 'auto darkening' helmet off Ebay, another great step forward. It is said that these inverter welders will wind down to low amps running but still have the grunt to start a rod, so thinner stuff is more poss with 1.6mm rods. Have got some to try & must when I next have the unit out. Stick will not weld anything thinner than the rod dia. so they say not less than 1.5mm thick steel. Have in the past used a twin carbon arc brazing torch on thin stuff off a stick welder. R Tech have some good advice on using an inverter on a genny. & also say keep grinding dust out of the inverter. I always switch it off & cover with cloth before grinding anywhere near it.

 

[Smiffy]

I sort of went through this a while ago, looked at an oil cooled 'Oxford' welder vs. a modern inverter. I only have single phase & not that wonderful a supply without a lot of work/money. I found that the oil cooled units were very power hungry (Needing at least a 20A dedicated socket) & only comprable to an industrial machine for smoothness if on 3ph anyway.
I went with the Pro Arc 135 inverter from R Tech (3 yr no quibble warranty) - have it running from a 16A 'blue' industrial socket wired from a disused 16A feed that once run a bathroom heater, (as nusance plug fuse blowing likely if off 13A plug on 3.25 rods)
A thing to look out for is the quoted 'open circuit voltage' (OCV) - if you want to use low hydrogen E7018 rods, for strong root runs in thick material, vertical welding, or indeed other special rods eg. Hardox. To get these rods to start needs an OCV of about 80v.
I was told that once a combined thickness of 18mm plus is to be welded the E7018's are good, & if say T butt welding 10mm plate to 12mm these thicknesses add together to be above the 18mm. There is a wealth of help & knowledge here https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/
covers far more than mig. To see what I tackled look at the Gopher Restoration on the vintage section here. I did do a short welding course about 30 yrs ago during 90's slump when on dole.
I bought a cheap 'auto darkening' helmet off Ebay, another great step forward. It is said that these inverter welders will wind down to low amps running but still have the grunt to start a rod, so thinner stuff is more poss with 1.6mm rods. Have got some to try & must when I next have the unit out. Stick will not weld anything thinner than the rod dia. so they say not less than 1.5mm thick steel. Have in the past used a twin carbon arc brazing torch on thin stuff off a stick welder. R Tech have some good advice on using an inverter on a genny. & also say keep grinding dust out of the inverter. I always switch it off & cover with cloth before grinding anywhere near it.

If you ring r tech up they can usually sort you a deal out on a mask and some accessories. They threw a longer set of leads in for me f.o.c and my old man got a bundle of tips and some wire for his mig and I think some tips and shrouds for his Tig

 

[doobin]

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Mig welding..... Pfft. Good man will do garden ornaments with Stick.

OP has already told us he’s a novice and asked for the best way forward in his situation. A decent genny gives him off grid power for anything, and he then can take his pick of welding processes to learn.


Mig still wins for tidy, quick garden ornaments though!

 

[JD450A]

OP has already told us he’s a novice and asked for the best way forward in his situation. A decent genny gives him off grid power for anything, and he then can take his pick of welding processes to learn.


Mig still wins for tidy, quick garden ornaments though!

330A Arc gen will give off grid power at 110V, step up tranny to 240V if you need it. Splash a bit more cash will get you a Arc Gen or similar with 240v or even 3 phase and they are good bulletproof units! Mine cost £900 and now has over 10k hrs on it.

 

[Maxus]

I think I'm sold on the Arc Gen units. Look pretty robust, plenty of power doubles up as a generator. Any idea what the output is as a generator? £900 is cheap by the looks of prices on eBay.

I'm going to need a bigger lockup at this rate

 

[JD450A]

I think I'm sold on the Arc Gen units. Look pretty robust, plenty of power doubles up as a generator. Any idea what the output is as a generator? £900 is cheap by the looks of prices on eBay.

I'm going to need a bigger lockup at this rate

Mine will run most grinders fine. Has a iffy relationship with Hitachi 9" grinders as they trip on the thermal cut outs easier in generator power than mains for some reason..... Everything else is fine..... Might be my welding set as opposed to the grinder but it causes me no grief.

110v is a pain but you can get most things for it.

Stick is harder to learn than Mig but if you learn it first you will be better for it. It is also better for welding outside.

 

[doobin]

Don’t hobble yourself starting out. If there isn’t enough power to run a 9” grinder then is there enough for any other combinations of things you might want to use in the near future? A proper generator future proofs you.

Mig will give you cleaner results faster and is much better for fiddly things. Any invertor mig like the rtech 180 will do stick as well if you want to learn. I mig outdoors all the time with little trouble.

110v tools are such a pain the the arse it’s unreal.

 

[JD450A]

They will run a 9" grinder..... Just don't like Hitachi/Hokikoki ones..., Fk know why.

 

[Steve]

They will run a 9" grinder..... Just don't like Hitachi/Hokikoki ones..., Fk know why.

I can understand that I don’t like Hitachi grinders

 

[T whiting]

Don’t hobble yourself starting out. If there isn’t enough power to run a 9” grinder then is there enough for any other combinations of things you might want to use in the near future? A proper generator future proofs you.

Mig will give you cleaner results faster and is much better for fiddly things. Any invertor mig like the rtech 180 will do stick as well if you want to learn. I mig outdoors all the time with little trouble.

110v tools are such a pain the the arse it’s unreal.

Mugs great for making welds that look good but have absolutely no penetration

 

[Canal Navvy]

They will run a 9" grinder..... Just don't like Hitachi/Hokikoki ones..., Fk know why.

Odd , my Japanese Miller will run everything on 110, 240 & 415 I've tried but not the two new little Makita 110v soft start grinders .... , Fk knows why X2

 

[Bri963]

Mugs great for making welds that look good but have absolutely no penetration

Whereas mig is great for making welds that look good and have penetration, as long as you know what you’re doing

 

[doobin]

Mugs great for making welds that look good but have absolutely no penetration

Both welding processes can make s**t welds. You might as well say that arc is great for laying down pigeon s**t. Both processes need to be learnt, but generally mig will make better welds sooner for a beginner. It's also much, much faster, which I don't think anyone else has mentioned yet. And no chipping (we're not talking big straight runs on 7018 here, it's a novice making garden ornaments! There will be chipping, lots of it!)

If he has in inverter mig plus decent generator, he can play with both processes to his hearts content, as well as run anything else he could ever want in future. Also, if you ever want to do bodywork then arc isn't much use.

With a welding genny, he's limited to chipping pigeon s**t off garden ornaments whilst stopping welding so he can boil the kettle

 

[Stubota86]

I can understand that I don’t like Hitachi grinders

I’ve got a Makita 9 inch grinder and a hikoki one, makita seems to have a soft start on it whereas the hikoki tries to fly out your hands every time you pull the trigger

 

[T whiting]

Both welding processes can make s**t welds. You might as well say that arc is great for laying down pigeon s**t. Both processes need to be learnt, but generally mig will make better welds sooner for a beginner. It's also much, much faster, which I don't think anyone else has mentioned yet. And no chipping (we're not talking big straight runs on 7018 here, it's a novice making garden ornaments! There will be chipping, lots of it!)

If he has in inverter mig plus decent generator, he can play with both processes to his hearts content, as well as run anything else he could ever want in future. Also, if you ever want to do bodywork then arc isn't much use.

With a welding genny, he's limited to chipping pigeon s**t off garden ornaments whilst stopping welding so he can boil the kettle

Yes I've nothing against mig brilliant for laying metal down on something clean Nd building new stuffunfortunatly on horseshoes / anything dirty it won't penetrate and loos good but it's just sat on top

 

[JD450A]

Issue with Mig is two fold.... Power and Wind...... Both you will struggle with in "the bush" the Former is also a problem for Inverters although to a lesser extent.

Mig depends on Gas for the shielding (flux cored wire is fair shite so I'm not going into it) Not only does this mean bottles and the arising issues but the slightest breeze will blow the shield away which means s**t welds.

Other issue with Mig is the reality that you need Power to get penetration with any welder...... it's more of a operator and unit fault. Small wire can be easily spunked onto the work with a mig, resulting in a great big weld with naff all penetration. Most Migs aren't very big and thus spunking on the work results because "that's all I have"

My Arc Gen 330 Is a beaut for big welding..... you won't do panel work but that's buy the by.

 

[doobin]

There’s loads you can do to improve penetration. Drag the weld. Run a gas with less argon which will give you a hotter weld pool without turning up the volts which will let you turn the wire feed/power up giving much more penetration.

I’m not saying don’t use arc if you want. I’m saying keep your options open and buy a genny for a remote worksite, then you can have a nice big mig welder that does both and maybe even tig if you want to.