Sub 3t tiltys

[Brendan]

I think so. I don’t think anything else in the weight class can outrun that machine. It’s been really good to me and with the extra warranty/ services JCB is offering at the moment, I think they represent great value for money too.
I would have some stuff setup differently on the tiltrotator side for sure. Mainly install details and some extra features added to the sticks but would still stick with the EC02 unit.
Don’t get me wrong though I would be having a very close look round the Kubota kx030 as it’s the jcbs closest rival and I haven’t driven one yet. But on the prices you are getting back for one, it would have to be light years ahead to be worth it, and I don’t think it will be.

Had a price for the kx030 today just under 27k with manual hitch, extra 1k for hydraulic and additional £1350 if high spec (twin proportional on levers)

 

[V8Druid]

Used products | engcon

cheap.

very .... but the devil's work (apparently) ... buttons and pedal
if I had a 3ish tonner I'd deffo be seriously considering that ... top hitch with it too, all be it a manual -- it'd keep you working if you had tilty trouble ... I know I'm in the dinosaur league with me pedal/buttons, but it's what I'm used to and can handle it just fine .... that is unquestionably bloody cheap, but limited.

@Randla could that have a rotary retro fitted to gain an aux feed ?

 

[V8Druid]

I think so. I don’t think anything else in the weight class can outrun that machine. It’s been really good to me and with the extra warranty/ services JCB is offering at the moment, I think they represent great value for money too.
I would have some stuff setup differently on the tiltrotator side for sure. Mainly install details and some extra features added to the sticks but would still stick with the EC02 unit.
Don’t get me wrong though I would be having a very close look round the Kubota kx030 as it’s the jcbs closest rival and I haven’t driven one yet. But on the prices you are getting back for one, it would have to be light years ahead to be worth it, and I don’t think it will be.

If you were to change everything and start again what machine would it be, still the 8026?

having watched Ollie's vid.s, I have to say, (as I already have elsewhere). He's sold it to me ... If I was after a new m/c of that ilk, I would certainly be giving it serious consideration and taking a trip to see his in the metal/in operation ... comes across as seriously sorted

 

[Furniss]

just get the machine without a hitch. the hitch and buckets come with tilty or you end up with the shite standard l

very .... but the devil's work (apparently) ... buttons and pedal
if I had a 3ish tonner I'd deffo be seriously considering that ... top hitch with it too, all be it a manual -- it'd keep you working if you had tilty trouble ... I know I'm in the dinosaur league with me pedal/buttons, but it's what I'm used to and can handle it just fine .... that is unquestionably bloody cheap, but limited.

@Randla could that have a rotary retro fitted to gain an aux feed ?

I keep having a look at that - if I was in the u.k I would have put it on the old KX71-3.

 

[fred]

kubota spec wise beat the rest when i was looking, i ruled out jcb due to the poor quality of jcb products. its also a true 3 tonner not a 2.5 which matters when wanting to hang a tilty with a grab. I wouldn't entertain not having a grab after using one for a couple years.

I never dropped the tilty in the whole time it was on the machine, i kept the top hitch but never fitted it as the build height becomes too much and effects loading dumpers etc The compromise is you wont be able to dig narrow trenches as the tilty is 600wide so wont fit in the hole. I had the 300x900 deep drainage bucket though so this covered most of it.

maybe worth updating the table below I knocked together when looking a few years ago.

 

[Pedrod355]

I cant knock my volvo ec27d. Same as @Gunners i would had to park up my machine if I hadn’t had a top hitch due to the amount of down time i have had with engcon unit. I bought machine bare stick so savings there helped with top hitch.

 

[Randla]

very .... but the devil's work (apparently) ... buttons and pedal
if I had a 3ish tonner I'd deffo be seriously considering that ... top hitch with it too, all be it a manual -- it'd keep you working if you had tilty trouble ... I know I'm in the dinosaur league with me pedal/buttons, but it's what I'm used to and can handle it just fine .... that is unquestionably bloody cheap, but limited.

@Randla could that have a rotary retro fitted to gain an aux feed ?

I think we're talking apples and pears here, Graham. @Brendan was/is talking about a new digger and tilty in which case the choice, as @fred said earlier, comes down to:
2 x m/c prop joysticks and hitch line, stripped down tilty direct mount (SS0), tilt and rotate only. cheap as chips but no gadgets and lower resale.
2 x m/c prop joysticks and hitch line, tilty direct or twin hitch mount (SS9), tilt and rotate standard, with switch to aux and lower hitch. good compromise
Single hyd m/c, full fat tilty (SS10), full functionality. Marginally the most expensive, best resale.

(There's also SS1 but that's a special application which is not relevant to this thread)

The used unit at Tewkesbury is SS15 which I introduced in 2017 for existing diggers with pedal hydraulics. I doubt (but stand to be corrected) that it has a swivel so an Aux is out of the question. It's very good value and someone should snap it up, but not @Brendan

 

[Randla]

Prices have come in from most suppliers for the actual machines, in various specs all but sany and volvo, havent questioned the s30 hitch and buckets Ive asked for. Volvo mostly due to s40 being a factory option and sany, I think on steelwrist saying s30 too small and not suitable for anything above 2t.

The S standard states 2t max for S30, so Volvo/Steelwrist are technically correct (the former used to own the latter). However, the jump between S30 (2t) and S40 (6t) is such that the EC02/S30 used to regularly appear on 3t machines. Ollie's @Gunners recollection of Eddie Warrener's 'big digger/small tilty' posts on the old CEF is apt.

 

[doobin]

I use micro buckets under my power tilt and top hitch combo on the 1.9t, and 1.9t buckets when it’s on the 2.8t. Much more agile- isn’t that what tiltys are supposed to be about?

 

[JerryRtilt]

Not much I can add to this thread, I run a Volvo Ecr25d with a Rototilt R1,if I knew as much about tiltys two years ago as I do now I would have gone S30 not s40 and probably Engcon ec02 as Weight is the single most important factor I’ve found. I’m just about to change to a Volvo Ec27d similar to Bobcat 27 with a reduced tail swing, sacrificing the Zero tail swing and getting very tight staying legal on the trailer. But hopefully better balanced.

 

[V8Druid]

I think we're talking apples and pears here, Graham. @Brendan was/is talking about a new digger and tilty in which case the choice, as @fred said earlier, comes down to:
2 x m/c prop joysticks and hitch line, stripped down tilty direct mount (SS0), tilt and rotate only. cheap as chips but no gadgets and lower resale.
2 x m/c prop joysticks and hitch line, tilty direct or twin hitch mount (SS9), tilt and rotate standard, with switch to aux and lower hitch. good compromise
Single hyd m/c, full fat tilty (SS10), full functionality. Marginally the most expensive, best resale.

(There's also SS1 but that's a special application which is not relevant to this thread)

The used unit at Tewkesbury is SS15 which I introduced in 2017 for existing diggers with pedal hydraulics. I doubt (but stand to be corrected) that it has a swivel so an Aux is out of the question. It's very good value and someone should snap it up, but not @Brendan

yeh I know that Robert ... but the Q was "could that have a rotary retro fitted ..........?"

very .... but the devil's work (apparently) ... buttons and pedal
if I had a 3ish tonner I'd deffo be seriously considering that ... top hitch with it too, all be it a manual -- it'd keep you working if you had tilty trouble ... I know I'm in the dinosaur league with me pedal/buttons, but it's what I'm used to and can handle it just fine .... that is unquestionably bloody cheap, but limited.

@Randla could that have a rotary retro fitted to gain an aux feed ?

 

[V8Druid]

I keep having a look at that - if I was in the u.k I would have put it on the old KX71-3.

what's the problem with fitting it in France .... doesn't need to speak the language and i'm sure a man of your kaliber could fit it fairly easily ... it really isn't rocket science ... just a few wires and stick buttons

 

[Brendan]

kubota spec wise beat the rest when i was looking, i ruled out jcb due to the poor quality of jcb products. its also a true 3 tonner not a 2.5 which matters when wanting to hang a tilty with a grab. I wouldn't entertain not having a grab after using one for a couple years.

I never dropped the tilty in the whole time it was on the machine, i kept the top hitch but never fitted it as the build height becomes too much and effects loading dumpers etc The compromise is you wont be able to dig narrow trenches as the tilty is 600wide so wont fit in the hole. I had the 300x900 deep drainage bucket though so this covered most of it.

maybe worth updating the table below I knocked together when looking a few years ago.

View attachment 23579

I did this one, it's a bit all over the place.
Bit of a pain as only a couple have a few lift weights at different locations.
All the weights are at ground level and two weights for Blade Down and Side.
Didn't delve into hydraulic pressures as don't really know too much

 

[Brendan]

The way it stands at the moment any stock that is available or within a month is hammer line run off the pedal with no controls on levers or additional lines, except for the sany which I'm sure has two extra lines and proportional controls on it as standard.
Think the sunward does too but who is brave enough to drop 22k on one have seen two been resold with a handful of hours in the last few weeks . Volvo also has proportional controls on levers, not sure on lines but left stick controls boom swing

 

[Randla]

yeh I know that Robert ... but the Q was "could that have a rotary retro fitted ..........?"

Sorry Graham - I missed the point of your question

I've no doubt it could but whether it would be economic to do it is another thing. To get the manaufacturer or one of their service partners (more likely) to swap it out would probably raise the cost to more than a new one with a swivel. If (hypothetically) you were doing it for yourself then yes, it would make sense. As we've all said, it's good value for money but not something I'd personally promote on a new, factory-spec'd digger.

 

[CPS]

Aiden - I'd just make the observation that we used to get around this by fitting a pilot operated valve in these cases. Added about £500 IIRC

Yes I have done this before also.... still not something I'd recommend as they just aren't as good as the feeder valve.

But, back to the Kubota...... the KX range just don't have enough room to fit one.

Go on ask me how I know

 

[CPS]

I'll leave Aiden @CPS to do the 'red' stuff but a small sorting grab was around 110kgs. The extra weight of the larger tilty with the gripper is a bit short of that (say around 90kgs ish) but you then have the weight of the bucket (say 80 - 100kgs) and what's in it. As I said, I agree with @fred that the grippers are amazingly convenient but on a small machine <3t you are on the edge of what really works. The extra 90kgs deadweight of the larger tilty and gripper also counts on the overall trailer weight and many setups are already on the edge. Maybe Ollie @Gunners would like to add his tuppence worth?

The R1 is Rototilts smallest tiltrotator, available with both S30 and S40 (and possibly some German spec couplers) you can't have S30 with a gripper.
An S30 direct mount is approx 100kg.
A S40 direct mount is 110kg, the gripper is 36kg. These are real world weights by the way, not read of a spec sheet.

@JerryRtilt is a good guy to ask regarding grippers Vs grabs.. he has just bought a nice little Dala-gripen DGS012 of me

 

[CPS]

My tilty is S40 (as it shares attachments with my 6 tonner) without gripper, and it is already on the heavy side IMO. It would be too much with a gripper as well on the Bobcat. If it was a stand-alone unit I’d definitely go S30 on these little machines personally.

Yes but you but an RT20 on a E27 and R1 S30 would make a big difference to it I'd say

 

[doobin]

its also a true 3 tonner not a 2.5

It's 2.8t, same as the JCB 8026. My E27 is about the same with the extra counterweight either. Wouldn't call it a true 3 tonner, but all above are much better than the 2.5t hire specials.

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Yes but you but an RT20 on a E27 and R1 S30 would make a big difference to it I'd say

It was kicking around in the back of the garage and fits on fine!!! And I can’t see my little Bobcat ever breaking it, so I can be as rough as I like!!!