Sub 3t tiltys

[doobin]

I’ve got a 4-hose (ie TLE system) Rototilt on a bobcat E27 which was ordered/delivered with the second set of proportional controls with rocker switches in the joysticks. It works well (I use the grab more than the bucket tbh, switching between grab and tilt is not a problem as far as I’m concerned) but the second service is taken off the boom offset, which is only fed by a 1/4 inch hose so doesn’t have a great deal of flow. I plumbed this to the rotate as wanted as much flow as possible going through the head to the tilty’s extra service (so used the hammer line for tilt/extra) the rotator needs a fair bit of oil to spin fast though, and the farty extra device on the Bobcat is lacking tbh so it rotates pretty slowly.
You’re welcome to come and have a poke around/do some digging etc if you are ever in Cheshire.

They might have addressed this on newer models- on my E19 there is more flow on the second aux than the E27 for some reason.

Not sure how it compares to a tilty rotator but I find the grab rotator plenty fast enough on the E27.

 

[Furniss]

Wait a minute ...... probably going to get some f@#ks fired into me but Freds a builder with his own digger so what suits him may not necessarily suit your normal owner op

 

[Monkeybusiness]

My tilty is S40 (as it shares attachments with my 6 tonner) without gripper, and it is already on the heavy side IMO. It would be too much with a gripper as well on the Bobcat. If it was a stand-alone unit I’d definitely go S30 on these little machines personally.

 

[fred]

yeah i had S40 setup with gripper on the 040 and i handled it no problem. ok with a full grading bucket over the side it would be a bit tippy but otherwise perfect.

i would have preferred a shorter dipper but hey ho.

 

[Brendan]

So the general way to go is s30 on sub 3t machines

 

[fred]

the engcon 204 would be ok as it can have the built in gripper which was the model down from mine.

 

[Pedrod355]

From my experience go with standard machine with aux circuit then go fully prop on smallest tilt rotator, you will be glad you did once you have it!

 

[Gunners]

yeah i had S40 setup with gripper on the 040 and i handled it no problem. ok with a full grading bucket over the side it would be a bit tippy but otherwise perfect.

Fred, I agree the grippers are great and would love one but I'm glad I didn't. I'm not sure how the phrases "handles it no problem" and "over the side its a bit tippy" relate to each other? My machine throws 120L buckets around, cross tracks and doesn't lift a track. To me that's handling it no problem but each to their own.

Take your time to work out what setup works for you @Brendan, go try some machines similar to what you are thinking - its by far the best way to understand the benefits and drawbacks of each setup and is well worth your time. And speak to as many people you can find who run these on smaller machines, see what their opinions are.

Eddie (LGP excavators) may have some unpopular opinions, but he was spot on when he said to run the smallest tiltrotator on the biggest machine you can. And for me, S40 is too big on a 3t or under machine. Bucket profiles are much bigger, the tilty is heavier, larger build height etc. People run them and I'm sure love them but its not for me.

Everyones business is different, everyone has a different budget and there is no wrong answer here. But do your research and you will find the best for you. By the way it took me 3 years to buy from my first quote... Much to Roberts frustration I'm sure! There is a lot more users out there now, and more information and choice than there has ever been. Good luck hunting

 

[Brendan]

Fred, I agree the grippers are great and would love one but I'm glad I didn't. I'm not sure how the phrases "handles it no problem" and "over the side its a bit tippy" relate to each other? My machine throws 120L buckets around, cross tracks and doesn't lift a track. To me that's handling it no problem but each to their own.

Take your time to work out what setup works for you @Brendan, go try some machines similar to what you are thinking - its by far the best way to understand the benefits and drawbacks of each setup and is well worth your time. And speak to as many people you can find who run these on smaller machines, see what their opinions are.

Eddie (LGP excavators) may have some unpopular opinions, but he was spot on when he said to run the smallest tiltrotator on the biggest machine you can. And for me, S40 is too big on a 3t or under machine. Bucket profiles are much bigger, the tilty is heavier, larger build height etc. People run them and I'm sure love them but its not for me.

Everyones business is different, everyone has a different budget and there is no wrong answer here. But do your research and you will find the best for you. By the way it took me 3 years to buy from my first quote... Much to Roberts frustration I'm sure! There is a lot more users out there now, and more information and choice than there has ever been. Good luck hunting

appreciate your help and in the pm.

I am fully set on buying a new machine, just dont want to make any mistakes at the start, unfortunately a lack of machines everywhere means not really being able to see any.

Prices have come in from most suppliers for the actual machines, in various specs all but sany and volvo, havent questioned the s30 hitch and buckets Ive asked for. Volvo mostly due to s40 being a factory option and sany, I think on steelwrist saying s30 too small and not suitable for anything above 2t.


There has been a fair spread of prices at the lower end has been the sunward at 22k closely followed by jcb sany and yanmar (except the two dealers who had stock which both wanted 2-3k more than waiting), volvo alittle more expensive then at the top end wacker, kubota and bobcat which are floating at 28ish.

 

[fred]

just get the machine without a hitch. the hitch and buckets come with tilty or you end up with the shite standard ones.

 

[Brendan]

just get the machine without a hitch. the hitch and buckets come with tilty or you end up with the shite standard ones.

tilty wont be for a while, so will need hitch and buckets

 

[Left hooker]

OK - we'll agree to disagree Not sure about the Rototilt options but the yellow one only comes with a grab when you go for the EC204. For a start that size tilty is 45kgs heavier than it's smaller counterpart and the grab will double that. Add the dirt in the bucket and a conventional dipper and it's a problem on anything less than 3t and even more so with reduced tail swing diggers. I'm sure the manufacturers will sell you what you ask for but having driven pretty much every make around that size with those two tilties I know where my money would be.

Didn't the ec02 have a grab before the lineup update

 

[fred]

Used products | engcon

cheap.

 

[Brendan]

Used products | engcon

cheap.

I saw that a couple of days ago and just assumed as it was listed in october it would be gone

 

[Monkeybusiness]

appreciate your help and in the pm.

I am fully set on buying a new machine, just dont want to make any mistakes at the start, unfortunately a lack of machines everywhere means not really being able to see any.

Prices have come in from most suppliers for the actual machines, in various specs all but sany and volvo, havent questioned the s30 hitch and buckets Ive asked for. Volvo mostly due to s40 being a factory option and sany, I think on steelwrist saying s30 too small and not suitable for anything above 2t.


There has been a fair spread of prices at the lower end has been the sunward at 22k closely followed by jcb sany and yanmar (except the two dealers who had stock which both wanted 2-3k more than waiting), volvo alittle more expensive then at the top end wacker, kubota and bobcat which are floating at 28ish.

When I bought my 6 tonner and spec’d S40 from new (I got a huge amount of info from LGP Eddie’s excellent wideboy thread on the old CE forum - if the thread is still in existence I’d suggest giving it a read tbh) I was told by an Engcon supplier that S40 was too small for that size machine, and I needed to up it all to S45 (which is a significantly heavier construction in reality). All I’ll say is that I’m glad I didn’t change!
S30 is fine on a 3 tonner IMO,and better suited to it weight/geometry wise. Just remember that if you are starting off with a hitch and bucket package then you will end up with a set of buckets you can’t pin directly to the machine (no problem if you keep your top quickhitch once tiltied-up, but a possible issue in the future if you direct mount the tilty and it needs to come off for some reason - your buckets will not work without some form of hitch).

 

[Brendan]

When I bought my 6 tonner and spec’d S40 from new (I got a huge amount of info from LGP Eddie’s excellent wideboy thread on the old CE forum - if the thread is still in existence I’d suggest giving it a read tbh) I was told by an Engcon supplier that S40 was too small for that size machine, and I needed to up it all to S45 (which is a significantly heavier construction in reality). All I’ll say is that I’m glad I didn’t change!
S30 is fine on a 3 tonner IMO,and better suited to it weight/geometry wise. Just remember that if you are starting off with a hitch and bucket package then you will end up with a set of buckets you can’t pin directly to the machine (no problem if you keep your top quickhitch once tiltied-up, but a possible issue in the future if you direct mount the tilty and it needs to come off for some reason - your buckets will not work without some form of hitch).

Thats a good point, never thought about it that way.
Would a sub 3t machine be happy with a tilty under the machines hitch or would it just be too much build height and weight?

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Thats a good point, never thought about it that way.
Would a sub 3t machine be happy with a tilty under the machines hitch or would it just be too much build height and weight?

Mine is under the QH, all on S40 which is arguably too much build height for a little machine but it works fine for my use. However, I do very little digging with it in reality.
I’m sure S30 would be fine with a top hitch though, and the ease of taking the tilty off when you want to give something maximum leverage/need to get into a narrow trench is well worth the slight compromise in build height IMO.

 

[Gunners]

Thats a good point, never thought about it that way.
Would a sub 3t machine be happy with a tilty under the machines hitch or would it just be too much build height and weight?

If someone asked me this question a year ago, I would have said go direct mount, I’ve never had to take the tilty off to dig, haven’t really suffered any notice breakout loss and the hitches are expensive!
But since having a couple of breakdowns with the tilty, that top hitch has allowed me to keep working and has easily earnt its money for that reason alone. So I would get a top hitch again if I replaced my setup

 

[Brendan]

If someone asked me this question a year ago, I would have said go direct mount, I’ve never had to take the tilty off to dig, haven’t really suffered any notice breakout loss and the hitches are expensive!
But since having a couple of breakdowns with the tilty, that top hitch has allowed me to keep working and has easily earnt its money for that reason alone. So I would get a top hitch again if I replaced my setup

If you were to change everything and start again what machine would it be, still the 8026?

 

[Gunners]

If you were to change everything and start again what machine would it be, still the 8026?

I think so. I don’t think anything else in the weight class can outrun that machine. It’s been really good to me and with the extra warranty/ services JCB is offering at the moment, I think they represent great value for money too.
I would have some stuff setup differently on the tiltrotator side for sure. Mainly install details and some extra features added to the sticks but would still stick with the EC02 unit.
Don’t get me wrong though I would be having a very close look round the Kubota kx030 as it’s the jcbs closest rival and I haven’t driven one yet. But on the prices you are getting back for one, it would have to be light years ahead to be worth it, and I don’t think it will be.