Red diesel.....

[Gunners]

So you have to move to a tanked solution, this is where heat pumps start to compete as they use a tanked solution as well. In fairness they can heat up a tank pretty rapidly, 30 mins or faster. Ground source much better than air source.

They just dont work in older houses that are not airtight and have modern levels of insulation as they cant keep up.

Having dabbled in this technology over the years, both ground and air, ground is more efficient, but you cant extract heat 365 days a year as you get frost heave in the surrounding ground. Some big NHBC claims in from ground source systems being run all year round - they aren't as good as they say. The borehole ground source systems do counteract this but mega cost.
I agree we need to do things differently, and insulation is certainly one of them, but the sub 5 air tight box's you see on grand designs, all have to run MVHR systems to counteract the condensation be breathe out, cooking produces, showers etc. This is basically extracting the air inside your airtight box, passing it through a heat exchanger and warming up the incoming air being pumped in. All this uses electricity! Gone are the days of trickle vents, you need an electric motor running 24/7 now. We seem to solve one problem and create another.

The reality is, houses in the future wont be heated past 18 degrees. The sustainable systems cant get what most of us would call a warm house (i.e. 20c plus) Invest in a decent jumper people, good job global warming is here to help.

 

[GazCro]

Having dabbled in this technology over the years, both ground and air, ground is more efficient, but you cant extract heat 365 days a year as you get frost heave in the surrounding ground. Some big NHBC claims in from ground source systems being run all year round - they aren't as good as they say. The borehole ground source systems do counteract this but mega cost.
I agree we need to do things differently, and insulation is certainly one of them, but the sub 5 air tight box's you see on grand designs, all have to run MVHR systems to counteract the condensation be breathe out, cooking produces, showers etc. This is basically extracting the air inside your airtight box, passing it through a heat exchanger and warming up the incoming air being pumped in. All this uses electricity! Gone are the days of trickle vents, you need an electric motor running 24/7 now. We seem to solve one problem and create another.

The reality is, houses in the future wont be heated past 18 degrees. The sustainable systems cant get what most of us would call a warm house (i.e. 20c plus) Invest in a decent jumper people, good job global warming is here to help.

They actually reckon ground source after it's been installed for 10 or 15 years will be no more than or even less efficient than air source due to the cooling effect it has on the surrounding ground. And don't let anyone kid you, do you really think heat from the sun in a good summer gets down 4 foot.

 

[Gunners]

As for red diesel, its a good excuse to raise the prices I say. Anyway we are all exempt if you think about it,
@V8Druid you are gardening anyway so that comes under horticulture, don't know what your worried about.
@TiltyShaun you are farming Christmas trees and belties, no problem there
@JD450A you are farming scrap
@doobin is gardening for granny
@Shovelhands doesn't exist to be caught in the first place
@GazCro farms rocks (bigger than your rocks)
@Giles your dads a farmer, dads diesel is always best!
@fred your accountant will find a loophole
@Lancs Lad you must know a farmer surely. Sponsor some local sheep?
@rossandson has just bought half of Worcester to get his exception
I could go on, this is quite fun

I will be putting my cattle up for sponsorship if anyone needs an excuse to buy some red diesel in the area. I will send a picture each month and a short story so you can bore your supplier with pics of your cattle and endless stories about how they got out one night. Trust me they will be quite happy to just deliver it next time to avoid the hour long chat about types of gate!

On a serious note though guys, should we really be looking for ways around this or just embrace the change, roll with it and move on? None of us here are going to be the worst affected. I would be much more concerned if I had an ongoing contract with big machines that was negotiated before the change.

 

[Gunners]

They actually reckon ground source after it's been installed for 10 or 15 years will be no more than or even less efficient than air source due to the cooling effect it has on the surrounding ground. And don't let anyone kid you, do you really think heat from the sun in a good summer gets down 4 foot.

I dunno Gaz, both Hell and Australia are hot and they are both underneath us. I have no doubt in the earths ability to stay warm if you dig deep enough

 

[V8Druid]

The other thing reading about HVO, no sulphur, so no lube, older stuff wont like it, unless the manufactures add something else to it to give some lubrication

like some good old fashioned lead?

 

[bobthebuilder]

2025 mate.

dont worry boris will change the date

 

[Left hooker]

They actually reckon ground source after it's been installed for 10 or 15 years will be no more than or even less efficient than air source due to the cooling effect it has on the surrounding ground. And don't let anyone kid you, do you really think heat from the sun in a good summer gets down 4 foot.

Thats where you need proper ground source not just slinky's 4ft down
Bore holes down to 90m does the trick down here

 

[GazCro]

Thats where you need proper ground source not just slinky's 4ft down
Bore holes down to 90m does the trick down here

Last couple of ground source jobs I've been asked to dig I've actually told them to use boreholes or find someone else to dig them mainly for that reason.

 

[Vinpetrol]

As for red diesel, its a good excuse to raise the prices I say. Anyway we are all exempt if you think about it,
@V8Druid you are gardening anyway so that comes under horticulture, don't know what your worried about.
@TiltyShaun you are farming Christmas trees and belties, no problem there
@JD450A you are farming scrap
@doobin is gardening for granny
@Shovelhands doesn't exist to be caught in the first place
@GazCro farms rocks (bigger than your rocks)
@Giles your dads a farmer, dads diesel is always best!
@fred your accountant will find a loophole
@Lancs Lad you must know a farmer surely. Sponsor some local sheep?
@rossandson has just bought half of Worcester to get his exception
I could go on, this is quite fun

I will be putting my cattle up for sponsorship if anyone needs an excuse to buy some red diesel in the area. I will send a picture each month and a short story so you can bore your supplier with pics of your cattle and endless stories about how they got out one night. Trust me they will be quite happy to just deliver it next time to avoid the hour long chat about types of gate!

On a serious note though guys, should we really be looking for ways around this or just embrace the change, roll with it and move on? None of us here are going to be the worst affected. I would be much more concerned if I had an ongoing contract with big machines that was negotiated before the change.

I didn’t make the list ! Gutted

 

[Vinpetrol]

I didn’t make the list ! Gutted

I feckin voted for him too

 

[bobthebuilder]

keep calm and carry on

 

[Lancs Lad]

Hehe, Horticulture has a very wide range of applications I've discovered sorted

 

[JD450A]

"noun
noun: horticulture

1. the art or practice of garden cultivation and management."

 

[Lancs Lad]

"noun
noun: horticulture

1. the art or practice of garden cultivation and management."

Exactly...no mention of how big the garden is ..

 

[CPS]

I didn’t make the list ! Gutted

The petrol bit threw him off

 

[V8Druid]

As for red diesel, its a good excuse to raise the prices I say. Anyway we are all exempt if you think about it,
@V8Druid you are gardening anyway so that comes under horticulture, don't know what your worried about.
@TiltyShaun you are farming Christmas trees and belties, no problem there
@JD450A you are farming scrap
@doobin is gardening for granny
@Shovelhands doesn't exist to be caught in the first place
@GazCro farms rocks (bigger than your rocks)
@Giles your dads a farmer, dads diesel is always best!
@fred your accountant will find a loophole
@Lancs Lad you must know a farmer surely. Sponsor some local sheep?
@rossandson has just bought half of Worcester to get his exception
I could go on, this is quite fun

I will be putting my cattle up for sponsorship if anyone needs an excuse to buy some red diesel in the area. I will send a picture each month and a short story so you can bore your supplier with pics of your cattle and endless stories about how they got out one night. Trust me they will be quite happy to just deliver it next time to avoid the hour long chat about types of gate!

On a serious note though guys, should we really be looking for ways around this or just embrace the change, roll with it and move on? None of us here are going to be the worst affected. I would be much more concerned if I had an ongoing contract with big machines that was negotiated before the change.

I love it Ollie ... I'll quote you on that -- if you get a call from RDCO in Newcastle ..... just remember to say the Gardening/horticulture words
'tis very true though ............. some of the time

 

[Quattromike]

I didn’t make the list ! Gutted

Us lot up north of the boorder don’t pay the same texes and them in southern UK

 

[V8Druid]

Us lot up north of the boorder don’t pay the same texes and them in southern UK

still on pedal power up there ain't yers

 

[Quattromike]

still on pedal power up there ain't yers

We have a far more spirited life

 

[V8Druid]

We have a far more spirited life

you do know that cherry is not for consumption