Red diesel.....

Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
So you have to move to a tanked solution, this is where heat pumps start to compete as they use a tanked solution as well. In fairness they can heat up a tank pretty rapidly, 30 mins or faster. Ground source much better than air source.

They just dont work in older houses that are not airtight and have modern levels of insulation as they cant keep up.
Having dabbled in this technology over the years, both ground and air, ground is more efficient, but you cant extract heat 365 days a year as you get frost heave in the surrounding ground. Some big NHBC claims in from ground source systems being run all year round - they aren't as good as they say. The borehole ground source systems do counteract this but mega cost.
I agree we need to do things differently, and insulation is certainly one of them, but the sub 5 air tight box's you see on grand designs, all have to run MVHR systems to counteract the condensation be breathe out, cooking produces, showers etc. This is basically extracting the air inside your airtight box, passing it through a heat exchanger and warming up the incoming air being pumped in. All this uses electricity! Gone are the days of trickle vents, you need an electric motor running 24/7 now. We seem to solve one problem and create another.

The reality is, houses in the future wont be heated past 18 degrees. The sustainable systems cant get what most of us would call a warm house (i.e. 20c plus) Invest in a decent jumper people, good job global warming is here to help.
 
GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
Having dabbled in this technology over the years, both ground and air, ground is more efficient, but you cant extract heat 365 days a year as you get frost heave in the surrounding ground. Some big NHBC claims in from ground source systems being run all year round - they aren't as good as they say. The borehole ground source systems do counteract this but mega cost.
I agree we need to do things differently, and insulation is certainly one of them, but the sub 5 air tight box's you see on grand designs, all have to run MVHR systems to counteract the condensation be breathe out, cooking produces, showers etc. This is basically extracting the air inside your airtight box, passing it through a heat exchanger and warming up the incoming air being pumped in. All this uses electricity! Gone are the days of trickle vents, you need an electric motor running 24/7 now. We seem to solve one problem and create another.

The reality is, houses in the future wont be heated past 18 degrees. The sustainable systems cant get what most of us would call a warm house (i.e. 20c plus) Invest in a decent jumper people, good job global warming is here to help.
They actually reckon ground source after it's been installed for 10 or 15 years will be no more than or even less efficient than air source due to the cooling effect it has on the surrounding ground. And don't let anyone kid you, do you really think heat from the sun in a good summer gets down 4 foot.
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
As for red diesel, its a good excuse to raise the prices I say. Anyway we are all exempt if you think about it,
@V8Druid you are gardening anyway so that comes under horticulture, don't know what your worried about.
@TiltyShaun you are farming Christmas trees and belties, no problem there
@JD450A you are farming scrap
@doobin is gardening for granny
@Shovelhands doesn't exist to be caught in the first place
@GazCro farms rocks (bigger than your rocks)
@Giles your dads a farmer, dads diesel is always best!
@fred your accountant will find a loophole
@Lancs Lad you must know a farmer surely. Sponsor some local sheep?
@rossandson has just bought half of Worcester to get his exception
I could go on, this is quite fun 😁

I will be putting my cattle up for sponsorship if anyone needs an excuse to buy some red diesel in the area. I will send a picture each month and a short story so you can bore your supplier with pics of your cattle and endless stories about how they got out one night. Trust me they will be quite happy to just deliver it next time to avoid the hour long chat about types of gate!

On a serious note though guys, should we really be looking for ways around this or just embrace the change, roll with it and move on? None of us here are going to be the worst affected. I would be much more concerned if I had an ongoing contract with big machines that was negotiated before the change.
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
They actually reckon ground source after it's been installed for 10 or 15 years will be no more than or even less efficient than air source due to the cooling effect it has on the surrounding ground. And don't let anyone kid you, do you really think heat from the sun in a good summer gets down 4 foot.
I dunno Gaz, both Hell and Australia are hot and they are both underneath us. I have no doubt in the earths ability to stay warm if you dig deep enough
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
The other thing reading about HVO, no sulphur, so no lube, older stuff wont like it, unless the manufactures add something else to it to give some lubrication :unsure:
like some good old fashioned lead? :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Left hooker

Left hooker

Well-known member
They actually reckon ground source after it's been installed for 10 or 15 years will be no more than or even less efficient than air source due to the cooling effect it has on the surrounding ground. And don't let anyone kid you, do you really think heat from the sun in a good summer gets down 4 foot.
Thats where you need proper ground source not just slinky's 4ft down
Bore holes down to 90m does the trick down here
 
GazCro

GazCro

Well-known member
Thats where you need proper ground source not just slinky's 4ft down
Bore holes down to 90m does the trick down here
Last couple of ground source jobs I've been asked to dig I've actually told them to use boreholes or find someone else to dig them mainly for that reason.
 
Vinpetrol

Vinpetrol

Well-known member
As for red diesel, its a good excuse to raise the prices I say. Anyway we are all exempt if you think about it,
@V8Druid you are gardening anyway so that comes under horticulture, don't know what your worried about.
@TiltyShaun you are farming Christmas trees and belties, no problem there
@JD450A you are farming scrap
@doobin is gardening for granny
@Shovelhands doesn't exist to be caught in the first place
@GazCro farms rocks (bigger than your rocks)
@Giles your dads a farmer, dads diesel is always best!
@fred your accountant will find a loophole
@Lancs Lad you must know a farmer surely. Sponsor some local sheep?
@rossandson has just bought half of Worcester to get his exception
I could go on, this is quite fun 😁

I will be putting my cattle up for sponsorship if anyone needs an excuse to buy some red diesel in the area. I will send a picture each month and a short story so you can bore your supplier with pics of your cattle and endless stories about how they got out one night. Trust me they will be quite happy to just deliver it next time to avoid the hour long chat about types of gate!

On a serious note though guys, should we really be looking for ways around this or just embrace the change, roll with it and move on? None of us here are going to be the worst affected. I would be much more concerned if I had an ongoing contract with big machines that was negotiated before the change.
I didn’t make the list ! Gutted
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
As for red diesel, its a good excuse to raise the prices I say. Anyway we are all exempt if you think about it,
@V8Druid you are gardening anyway so that comes under horticulture, don't know what your worried about.
@TiltyShaun you are farming Christmas trees and belties, no problem there
@JD450A you are farming scrap
@doobin is gardening for granny
@Shovelhands doesn't exist to be caught in the first place
@GazCro farms rocks (bigger than your rocks)
@Giles your dads a farmer, dads diesel is always best!
@fred your accountant will find a loophole
@Lancs Lad you must know a farmer surely. Sponsor some local sheep?
@rossandson has just bought half of Worcester to get his exception
I could go on, this is quite fun 😁

I will be putting my cattle up for sponsorship if anyone needs an excuse to buy some red diesel in the area. I will send a picture each month and a short story so you can bore your supplier with pics of your cattle and endless stories about how they got out one night. Trust me they will be quite happy to just deliver it next time to avoid the hour long chat about types of gate!

On a serious note though guys, should we really be looking for ways around this or just embrace the change, roll with it and move on? None of us here are going to be the worst affected. I would be much more concerned if I had an ongoing contract with big machines that was negotiated before the change.
I love it Ollie ... I'll quote you on that -- if you get a call from RDCO in Newcastle ..... just remember to say the Gardening/horticulture words ;):LOL::ROFLMAO:
'tis very true though ............. some of the time :rolleyes:
 
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