Energy costs make you look at things

[Justme]

With the cost of electric going up with everything else my BIL has bought PV panels to go on the roof of his shed but doesn't intended to connect them to the mains. He says no point with the lack of feed in tariff. Instead he will connect up to stand alone immersion heater setup in the hot water tank to heat water for heating his house and general hot water duties. It's making me think about getting some on the workshop roof to ease back the electricity cost a bit. All being well when you do the sums it does add up but what has everyone else found with these panels, are they worth it?

If all he wants is hot water solar thermal is far more cost effective.

 

[Justme]

Didn't @Justme say he was off grid in another thread?

Yup

 

[Gecko]

If all he wants is hot water solar thermal is far more cost effective.

yes - about 2.5~3 times better.
The very best PV panels are only 20% efficient (18% is more common) where as evacuated tube water heaters are typically 60%.

Of course efficiency is calculated on collection area, not price, so if you are buying used PV's for stuff all, the numbers may start to look good for electric heating (you just need three times the area to do it).

 

[V8Druid]

It is true though, for your average person the figures don't add up. The Government want us to go green, but have removed the incentive (of grants etc) and are instead forcing us to pay for it by hiking up fuel prices.
For your less than average person it can be made to work though as you're trying to prove. Going around the system by buying good used, doing some DIY, paying a mate to do the wiring etc, then yes it becomes viable. As I have a garage with a South facing roof i'm hoping to do the same.
I don't know if you knew, but there are some good FB pages on DIY solar, about 3 I think and one is UK based, I found out via that where to get a good deal on new panels.
Also broken panels can be fixed by coating them with clear casting resin and a UV additive, the output is lower, but not markedly.

We could be heating our workshops or houses on used oil, but the Government have taxed that too. So it's either non viable or illegal.

On a personal note:
When we moved here we got ourselves locked into a good deal on LPG. However the small print reads that if gas prices go up by X percent then the locked in price is void so it was a waste of time. They've got you by the balls every which way you turn. There is even a large standing charge on the gas tanks, so when I find an alternative to heat my house i'll still get hit with that.

I'm considering wind power as well as that will work where I live. We're halfway down a hill, a few years ago the house above me (which is right on top of the hill) put a large turbine up. It lasted a few weeks before being blown down, they didn't bother again.

used to be about 200 quid a year on a 2000 litre ... had three in my yard ... 'bout the same as yer average leccy standing charge annually - each!!
has LPG climbed that much? ..

last time I looked, recently Autogas was 82p/l
so still about 50% of petrol, which is where it's traditionally been for 20+ years

 

[bobthebuilder]

used to be about 200 quid a year on a 2000 litre ... had three in my yard ... 'bout the same as yer average leccy standing charge annually - each!!
has LPG climbed that much? ..

last time I looked, recently Autogas was 82p/l
so still about 50% of petrol, which is where it's traditionally been for 20+ years

lpg on a 2yr contract 48p

 

[6feetdown]

UK Government planning energy blackouts with planned power cuts for homes

It comes as annual energy bills are set to top £4,200 from January

www.walesonline.co.uk

Already happened in South Africa

 

[V8Druid]

lpg on a 2yr contract 48p

sounds 'bout right .. was always circa 60% of Autogas .... what's your tank rental?

 

[Routy56]

UK Government planning energy blackouts with planned power cuts for homes

It comes as annual energy bills are set to top £4,200 from January

www.walesonline.co.uk

Already happened in South Africa

Looks like I'll be keeping my big fcuk off GenSet for a while longer then......

......always gotta have a plan B

 

[V8Druid]

UK Government planning energy blackouts with planned power cuts for homes

It comes as annual energy bills are set to top £4,200 from January

www.walesonline.co.uk

Already happened in South Africa

I pay my bills ... WTF should I be cut off .. I have a contract

people need to start prioritising their spending ...
no new phones every other week, bin Sky/Amazon/all the other pay to view streaming services, buy a few less cans/bottles a week, etc., etc. soooooo many people living way beyond their abilities, 'cos their credit scores (WTF are they all about FFS?) say they can ..

 

[V8Druid]

Looks like I'll be keeping my big fcuk off GenSet for a while longer then......
View attachment 38351
......always gotta have a plan B

ABSOLUTELY (and a C)
better get some red in Dave .... could be a looong winter

 

[Routy56]

ABSOLUTELY (and a C)
better get some red in Dave .... could be a looong winter

Yep that right Gra - I qualify to use rebated diesel (red) for domestic power generation. Have got a very small amount left from draining my plant tanks

 

[Justme]

yes - about 2.5~3 times better.
The very best PV panels are only 20% efficient (18% is more common) where as evacuated tube water heaters are typically 60%.

Of course efficiency is calculated on collection area, not price, so if you are buying used PV's for stuff all, the numbers may start to look good for electric heating (you just need three times the area to do it).

For most people roof or suitable area will be the limiting factor.

 

[bobthebuilder]

sounds 'bout right .. was always circa 60% of Autogas .... what's your tank rental?

100 quid ish a year

 

[V8Druid]

100 quid ish a year

's quite good for a domestic TBH .. assume a 2000L ... LPG looking quite attractive again for domestic use
An independent or one of the big boys?

 

[Lancs Lad]

's quite good for a domestic TBH .. assume a 2000L ... LPG looking quite attractive again for domestic use
An independent or one of the big boys?

One thing that's put me off LPG was my uncle always moaned you tied to whoever the tanks in contract with? Calor messed him up big style one winter when they couldn't deliver for ages etc..

 

[bobthebuilder]

One thing that's put me off LPG was my uncle always moaned you tied to whoever the tanks in contract with? Calor messed him up big style one winter when they couldn't deliver for ages etc..

1 year only contract, choice here is avanti ,calor ,flowgas ,all much of a muchness .all tossers

 

[V8Druid]

1 year only contract, choice here is avanti ,calor ,flowgas ,all much of a muchness .all tossers

Flowgas are muppets ... I speak from experience ...
there's also Callow-an independent who can usually beat the big boys
a 1 yr contract is unusual for the big boys

One thing that's put me off LPG was my uncle always moaned you tied to whoever the tanks in contract with? Calor messed him up big style one winter when they couldn't deliver for ages etc..

that is the issue and even on a 1yr contract there will be a massive 'uplift' fee .. have to be purged for transport
Calor were one of the smaller players, despite their 'name' didn't have much of a fleet to service customers with

 

[bobthebuilder]

Flowgas are muppets ... I speak from experience ...
there's also Callow-an independent who can usually beat the big boys
a 1 yr contract is unusual for the big boys

that is the issue and even on a 1yr contract there will be a massive 'uplift' fee .. have to be purged for transport
Calor were one of the smaller players, despite their 'name' didn't have much of a fleet to service customers with

if you are out of contract ,you can change supplier free of charge (aslong as the allotted tank time has passed ) i couldnt change suppliers for 2 years on a buried tank

 

[V8Druid]

if you are out of contract ,you can change supplier free of charge (aslong as the allotted tank time has passed ) i couldnt change suppliers for 2 years on a buried tank

not sure how they play it on buried tanks?
always used to have to be above ground, as Propane is heavier than air ...
those tanks are not cheap items and am very surprised at only a two year tie in, unless any new supplier has to take on/cough up a percentage value of the tank ... their test lives are normally 10 years, before mandatory replacement.

 

[bobthebuilder]

not sure how they play it on buried tanks?
always used to have to be above ground, as Propane is heavier than air ...
those tanks are not cheap items and am very surprised at only a two year tie in, unless any new supplier has to take on/cough up a percentage value of the tank ... their test lives are normally 10 years, before mandatory replacement.

According to calor ifs 20 years !