Energy costs make you look at things

[V8Druid]

Smarmers gonna be worn out - ripping up all the rule books - pity he has no bloody idea what he's doing - they weren't written for fun

Government seeks to ease the way for small modular reactors

Prime minister Kier Starmer says he is ripping up the rule book to get Britain building mini nuclear power plants.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

 

[SatS]

I asked chatGPT the following question, is it accurate in it's response ?

ME: "in a street of 200 houses in the UK what is typically the electric supply from the power company and the cable size"

In a typical UK residential street with 200 houses, the electricity supply and cable sizes would generally be as follows:

Electric Supply:​

1. Voltage:
   • 230V single-phase supply to individual homes.
   • Some larger homes or commercial properties may have 400V three-phase supply if required.
2. Connection Type:
   • Houses are typically connected via underground or overhead low-voltage (LV) distribution networks.
   • The street will be fed from a local substation, stepping down from 11kV to 400V (three-phase).
   • Each house is usually connected to one phase of the 400V supply.

Cable Sizes:​

1. Mains Distribution (Low Voltage - 400V):
   • Underground: Commonly Waveform XLPE Aluminium Cable, e.g. 300mm² AL (Aluminium) or 185mm² AL.
   • Overhead: Uses ABC (Aerial Bundled Cable) or open-wire configurations.
2. Service Cable to Each House (230V single-phase):
   • Underground: Typically Split Concentric 25mm² or 35mm² Aluminium, or 25mm²/35mm² Copper.
   • Overhead: 16mm² or 25mm² Copper or Aluminium.

For a street of 200 houses, the total demand would be balanced across the three phases, ensuring load distribution to avoid overloading any single phase. The local distribution substation will likely have a 500kVA or 800kVA transformer, depending on the estimated demand.


Would you like more details on load calculations or transformer sizing?

ME: how would electric heat pumps and car chargers for every house impact this , taking into account 2 cars each charging at 7KV

If every house in a 200-house UK street installed electric heat pumps and two 7kW EV chargers, the impact on the local electrical network would be significant, requiring major infrastructure upgrades. Here’s why:

---

1. Existing Supply vs. New Demand​

Typical Residential Demand (without EVs or Heat Pumps)​

• A standard UK house typically uses 1–2 kW average demand, peaking at 3–6 kW.
• A 200-house street would normally draw around 400–1200 kW peak load from the local 11kV-to-400V substation.

New Demand with Heat Pumps & EV Chargers​

• Heat Pump (Air Source or Ground Source)
  • Typical size: 3–5 kW (continuous draw in winter).
  • Assume peak use in cold weather: 5 kW per house → 1,000 kW (1 MW) for 200 houses.
• EV Chargers (2 per house, 7kW each)
  • 14 kW per house if both charge simultaneously.
  • Peak potential demand: 2,800 kW (2.8 MW).
• New Total Peak Demand (Worst Case)
  • Existing Load: ~1,000 kW
  • Heat Pumps: +1,000 kW
  • EV Chargers: +2,800 kW
  • TOTAL: ~4.8 MW
    This is nearly 4x the original demand and would overload the current infrastructure.

---

2. Impact on the Grid & Required Upgrades​

a) Local Substation (11kV to 400V)​

• Existing substation: Likely 500 kVA or 800 kVA, far too small for 4.8 MW demand.
• Upgrade needed: A new 5 MVA (5,000 kVA) transformer or multiple smaller ones.

b) Low-Voltage Mains Cables (400V)​

• Current underground LV cables are likely 300mm² Aluminium or 185mm².
• These might need upgrading to 500mm² Aluminium or adding multiple LV feeders.

c) Service Cables to Each House​

• Existing 25mm² or 35mm² Aluminium service cables may not handle 20 kW per house (heat pump + EVs).
• Upgrades to 50mm² or 70mm² cables might be needed.

---

3. Possible Mitigations​

To avoid overloading the network, the power company might introduce:

1. Smart Charging for EVs:
   • Delays or throttles charging to avoid peak demand times.
   • Uses dynamic pricing to encourage off-peak charging.
2. Time-of-Use Tariffs & Demand Management:
   • Encourages heating during off-peak hours.
3. Local Battery Storage & Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G):
   • EVs and home batteries could help stabilise local demand.
4. Installing a New HV Feeder (33kV or 11kV):
   • Bringing in a higher voltage supply to support the substation.

---

Conclusion​

A full transition to heat pumps and EV chargers in every house would require significant reinforcement of the local substation, LV distribution network, and service cables. Without upgrades or smart load management, voltage drops, brownouts, and outages would be expected.

​

​

 

[Lancs Lad]

W

I asked chatGPT the following question, is it accurate in it's response ?

ME: "in a street of 200 houses in the UK what is typically the electric supply from the power company and the cable size"

In a typical UK residential street with 200 houses, the electricity supply and cable sizes would generally be as follows:

Electric Supply:​

1. Voltage:
   • 230V single-phase supply to individual homes.
   • Some larger homes or commercial properties may have 400V three-phase supply if required.
2. Connection Type:
   • Houses are typically connected via underground or overhead low-voltage (LV) distribution networks.
   • The street will be fed from a local substation, stepping down from 11kV to 400V (three-phase).
   • Each house is usually connected to one phase of the 400V supply.

Cable Sizes:​

1. Mains Distribution (Low Voltage - 400V):
   • Underground: Commonly Waveform XLPE Aluminium Cable, e.g. 300mm² AL (Aluminium) or 185mm² AL.
   • Overhead: Uses ABC (Aerial Bundled Cable) or open-wire configurations.
2. Service Cable to Each House (230V single-phase):
   • Underground: Typically Split Concentric 25mm² or 35mm² Aluminium, or 25mm²/35mm² Copper.
   • Overhead: 16mm² or 25mm² Copper or Aluminium.

For a street of 200 houses, the total demand would be balanced across the three phases, ensuring load distribution to avoid overloading any single phase. The local distribution substation will likely have a 500kVA or 800kVA transformer, depending on the estimated demand.


Would you like more details on load calculations or transformer sizing?

ME: how would electric heat pumps and car chargers for every house impact this , taking into account 2 cars each charging at 7KV

If every house in a 200-house UK street installed electric heat pumps and two 7kW EV chargers, the impact on the local electrical network would be significant, requiring major infrastructure upgrades. Here’s why:

---

1. Existing Supply vs. New Demand​

Typical Residential Demand (without EVs or Heat Pumps)​

• A standard UK house typically uses 1–2 kW average demand, peaking at 3–6 kW.
• A 200-house street would normally draw around 400–1200 kW peak load from the local 11kV-to-400V substation.

New Demand with Heat Pumps & EV Chargers​

• Heat Pump (Air Source or Ground Source)
  • Typical size: 3–5 kW (continuous draw in winter).
  • Assume peak use in cold weather: 5 kW per house → 1,000 kW (1 MW) for 200 houses.
• EV Chargers (2 per house, 7kW each)
  • 14 kW per house if both charge simultaneously.
  • Peak potential demand: 2,800 kW (2.8 MW).
• New Total Peak Demand (Worst Case)
  • Existing Load: ~1,000 kW
  • Heat Pumps: +1,000 kW
  • EV Chargers: +2,800 kW
  • TOTAL: ~4.8 MW
    This is nearly 4x the original demand and would overload the current infrastructure.

---

2. Impact on the Grid & Required Upgrades​

a) Local Substation (11kV to 400V)​

• Existing substation: Likely 500 kVA or 800 kVA, far too small for 4.8 MW demand.
• Upgrade needed: A new 5 MVA (5,000 kVA) transformer or multiple smaller ones.

b) Low-Voltage Mains Cables (400V)​

• Current underground LV cables are likely 300mm² Aluminium or 185mm².
• These might need upgrading to 500mm² Aluminium or adding multiple LV feeders.

c) Service Cables to Each House​

• Existing 25mm² or 35mm² Aluminium service cables may not handle 20 kW per house (heat pump + EVs).
• Upgrades to 50mm² or 70mm² cables might be needed.

---

3. Possible Mitigations​

To avoid overloading the network, the power company might introduce:

1. Smart Charging for EVs:
   • Delays or throttles charging to avoid peak demand times.
   • Uses dynamic pricing to encourage off-peak charging.
2. Time-of-Use Tariffs & Demand Management:
   • Encourages heating during off-peak hours.
3. Local Battery Storage & Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G):
   • EVs and home batteries could help stabilise local demand.
4. Installing a New HV Feeder (33kV or 11kV):
   • Bringing in a higher voltage supply to support the substation.

---

Conclusion​

A full transition to heat pumps and EV chargers in every house would require significant reinforcement of the local substation, LV distribution network, and service cables. Without upgrades or smart load management, voltage drops, brownouts, and outages would be expected.

​

​

Well done I never think to use this stuff for such calculations. Tried to tally it up a bit back.
This just shows how much a joke it all is.

Think if that's a nice neat new supply install on an estate ...now think about it on a dodgy 50 year old overhead feed....🫨 Did no one ever clock why DNOs wanted notifying about heat pumps or chargers FFS.

Just had the standing charge bill for a site in Surrey for 4 x7kw chargers...nigh on £500 pm before a car is plugged in. Fk knows what a super chargers standing charge must be....I predict we will see the low usage ones removed or quietly disconnected before long.

 

[SatS]

They are about to cover North Lincs (where I am) with solar panels - a big new super-pylon-highway so they can ship the power down to London , usual story!
I'm going to keep my oil boiler

 

[craig]

The powers that be want more AI, just need to magic up more electricity

Electricity grids creak as AI demands soar

Data centre electricity demand is forecast to double in four years, putting energy grids under pressure.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[6feetdown]

The powers that be want more AI, just need to magic up more electricity

Electricity grids creak as AI demands soar

Data centre electricity demand is forecast to double in four years, putting energy grids under pressure.

www.bbc.co.uk

Be playing with the smart meters before long

 

[V8Druid]

Be playing with the smart meters before long

I'll swear our voltage is down quite regularly .... kettle can take forever to boil, some days ... must install a voltmeter and see how it fluctuates

 

[V8Druid]

Decommissioned wind turbine blades recycled into asphalt for new roads

As much as wind turbines are great for producing clean energy, disposing of them when the time comes can be challenging. Researchers in China have hit upon a clever way to use discarded blades to build long-lasting roads – a method that could come in handy as we erect and decommission more turbines…

newatlas.com

but at what cost ??????

 

[V8Druid]

of course they did ..... the rubber stamp has been doled out to them to do as they like

Planning inspector uses new grey belt rules to overturn refusal of battery storage scheme

Faciltiy was rejected by Trafford council last year due to fears over its impact on surrounding countryside

www.building.co.uk

looking at the pic it's hardly surprising their (local planners) reasons didn't hold water ... what we don't see is the power lines needed to connect said bank, straddling the countryside

 

[V8Druid]

interesting admissions

Legislation aims to limit impact of battery explosions

The tool hire sector is supporting legislation currently being considered by parliament to make provision regarding the safe storage, use and disposal of lithium-ion batteries.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

" It is not just e-scooters and e-bike that can be prone to apparent spontaneous combustion; so can power tools and light construction machinery. The common factor is the lithium-ion batteries that power them can be prone to ‘thermal runaway’, in which they enter a self-heating state that can result in explosion and fire. This is because they have such a high energy density.

It has been reported that UK fire services attended 921 fires linked to lithium-ion batteries in 2023, a 46% (rise) on 2022’s figures. "

 

[Lancs Lad]

of course they did ..... the rubber stamp has been doled out to them to do as they like

Planning inspector uses new grey belt rules to overturn refusal of battery storage scheme

Faciltiy was rejected by Trafford council last year due to fears over its impact on surrounding countryside

www.building.co.uk

looking at the pic it's hardly surprising their (local planners) reasons didn't hold water ... what we don't see is the power lines needed to connect said bank, straddling the countryside
View attachment 69524

Interesting. I've been keeping my eye on another new plant in blackrod.
It's a new gas fired mini power station or as they call it ( energy reserve building)
Basically in their words :

"With a heavy reliance on climatic conditions, these sources can be more unpredictable. Coupled with the phasing out of coal-power stations, there is a growing need for new power plants that can respond quickly to local demands.

“Reciprocating gas-engine technology is clean-burning, efficient and responsive and is able to generate power at very short notice.”

So in other words we need lots of mini gas powered plants built all over the place

 

[V8Druid]

"With a heavy reliance on climatic conditions, these sources can be more unpredictable. Coupled with the phasing out of coal-power stations, there is a growing need for new power plants that can respond quickly to local demands.

“Reciprocating gas-engine technology is clean-burning, efficient and responsive and is able to generate power at very short notice.”

So in other words we need lots of mini gas powered plants built all over the place

so the ICE will live on ... powered by LNG (a hydrocarbon product) which is increasingly having to be imported

 

[craig]

Interesting. I've been keeping my eye on another new plant in blackrod.

I`ve done some work at a gas engine generator in Blackrod, there's quite a lot of them around the country when you start looking.

 

[V8Druid]

Wyoming too windy

 

[bobthebuilder]

I`ve done some work at a gas engine generator in Blackrod, there's quite a lot of them around the country when you start looking.

used to be two ginormus rolls royce generators just sat waiting in monmouth ,over on hadnock road ,just sat waiting to top up the elecy supply

 

[V8Druid]

interesting couple of posts

 

[V8Druid]

tripped over this earlier - feb '24 post

 

[V8Druid]

here's another load of greenwash bollox

Solar farm boosts Multiplex net zero ambitions

Multiplex has powered up a 10MWp solar farm in Norfolk to offset carbon on its London construction projects.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

 

[V8Druid]

Schools and hospitals to get solar panels

The government has announced a £200m programme of fitting solar panels to English schools and hospitals.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

" The government has announced a £200m programme of fitting solar panels to English schools and hospitals.

200 schools and 200 hospitals will be fitted with solar panels
The first project from Great British Energy, the new government-owned renewable energy investment body, is to put solar panels on around 200 schools and 200 NHS sites in England.
Around £80m in funding will support around 200 schools, alongside £100m for nearly 200 NHS sites, covering a third of NHS trusts, to install solar panels.
The first panels are expected to be in schools and hospitals by the end of this summer, saving schools money for the next academic year. "

 

[6feetdown]

Schools and hospitals to get solar panels

The government has announced a £200m programme of fitting solar panels to English schools and hospitals.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

" The government has announced a £200m programme of fitting solar panels to English schools and hospitals.

200 schools and 200 hospitals will be fitted with solar panels
The first project from Great British Energy, the new government-owned renewable energy investment body, is to put solar panels on around 200 schools and 200 NHS sites in England.
Around £80m in funding will support around 200 schools, alongside £100m for nearly 200 NHS sites, covering a third of NHS trusts, to install solar panels.
The first panels are expected to be in schools and hospitals by the end of this summer, saving schools money for the next academic year. "

So they will be directly employed installers or just another load of bs jobs using sub contractors