Electric vehicles

[JerryRtilt]

“All-electric plant isn’t yet a realistic option for our bigger sites, or for heavy plant,” Balfour Beatty group sustainability director Jo Gilroy says. “Just as the range on electric cars isn’t there yet, so the length of time plant can operate flat-out is an issue for the construction sector. ........It’s very difficult to make electrification work for big pieces, especially without a mains grid connection – and we need to ensure that there is capacity in the network. The range when they are not plugged in is limited. These larger pieces of electric equipment can also be twice the price of standard plant, and customers are often not prepared to pay the increased hire charges for them. Our view is that, for heavy plant, the priority for the industry has to be to accelerate the energy transition to hydrogen rather than relying on electric to provide the solution. ....... Now she ( Jo Gilroy ) is seeking to shatter the hype that surrounds battery power. ”

Balfour Beatty swings behind hydrogen for heavy plant

After trialling an array of battery-powered construction machinery on a site in Scotland, Balfour Beatty has concluded that hydrogen is a better fuel for heavy plant.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

HM Gov. gonna love that

Bout time someone started talking sense.
Very interesting YouTube vid on JCB Hydrogen engines, Lord B. Talking sense also.
Someone’s just got to start producing the stuff to run them on.

 

[Gecko]

I know the 'third owner' isn't really part of the program for a manufacturer, but my tractor hasn't left the farm since it was bought in the late '80's. The 3CX probably won't leave until it is sold - htf am I meant to get fuel into a 20 year old tractor/backhoe/excavator etc. that runs on something I can't carry in a jerry?
Charging a battery would work until the battery is eol, then a replacement battery would cost more than the scrap value of the digger (like electric forklifts now).

 

[Smiffy]

I know the 'third owner' isn't really part of the program for a manufacturer, but my tractor hasn't left the farm since it was bought in the late '80's. The 3CX probably won't leave until it is sold - htf am I meant to get fuel into a 20 year old tractor/backhoe/excavator etc. that runs on something I can't carry in a jerry?
Charging a battery would work until the battery is eol, then a replacement battery would cost more than the scrap value of the digger (like electric forklifts now).

Jcb I believe have already started to develop small portable hydrogen bowsers

 

[V8Druid]

Jcb I believe have already started to develop small portable hydrogen bowsers

but at what cost and are they all coming to Abergavenny's H2 refuelling station to fill them ????? .... anyone know of another one??

 

[Furniss]

Ohhhh…….haven’t the EU just kicked all electric new cars by 2035 down the road with there rules this week!!

What did I miss ?

 

[TiltyShaun]

What did I miss ?

New cars sold in EU must be zero-emission from 2035

The deal was delayed for weeks after Germany called for an exemption for cars running on e-fuels.

www.bbc.co.uk

The start of the cracks in electric only.

 

[Furniss]

New cars sold in EU must be zero-emission from 2035

The deal was delayed for weeks after Germany called for an exemption for cars running on e-fuels.

www.bbc.co.uk

The start of the cracks in electric only.

Interesting

 

[Bri963]

Bout time someone started talking sense.
Very interesting YouTube vid on JCB Hydrogen engines, Lord B. Talking sense also.
Someone’s just got to start producing the stuff to run them on.

Lord B producing a 4.4 hydrogen engine rated at just over 50 kW max. Diesels that capacity can reach over 150kW. You cannae change the laws of physics and you can’t get equivalent energy density out of hydrogen.

 

[V8Druid]

Lord B producing a 4.4 hydrogen engine rated at just over 50 kW max. Diesels that capacity can reach over 150kW. You cannae change the laws of physics and you can’t get equivalent energy density out of hydrogen.

but a supercharger'd help

 

[V8Druid]

New cars sold in EU must be zero-emission from 2035

The deal was delayed for weeks after Germany called for an exemption for cars running on e-fuels.

www.bbc.co.uk

The start of the cracks in electric only.

give it more time

 

[Bri963]

but a supercharger'd help

Not much. There’s a lot of other issues come into play with hydrogen.

 

[Bob]

https://www.fwi.co.uk/machinery/technology/jcbs-hydrogen-fuelled-combustion-engine-examined

it seams thy have used the bottom half of there diesel engine and altered the head

 

[Smiffy]

Lord B producing a 4.4 hydrogen engine rated at just over 50 kW max. Diesels that capacity can reach over 150kW. You cannae change the laws of physics and you can’t get equivalent energy density out of hydrogen.

It's only the beginning though. Look at the Bentley 6.5ltr of the 1920's only produced 110kw- 147hp. A fiat 500 arbath does 175hp out of a 1.4 litre

 

[Bri963]

It's only the beginning though. Look at the Bentley 6.5ltr of the 1920's only produced 110kw- 147hp. A fiat 500 arbath does 175hp out of a 1.4 litre

Don’t expect major gains. Remember there’s already over 120 years of development behind where we are now, it’s only the fuel that’s changing.

 

[Smiffy]

Don’t expect major gains. Remember there’s already over 120 years of development behind where we are now, it’s only the fuel that’s changing.

You would never know though. We can't possibly conceive what will be invented or developed.

My father is very fond of telling everyone about a newspaper article published over 100years ago predicting that London will be buried under a mountain of horse muck due to the amount of horses required for the industrial revolution. Except the internal combustion engine took over and horses became redundant.

There are so many avenues that are being explored.

 

[TiltyShaun]

I have a friend who has been working on hydrogen power cells and some of the problems are quite different from exploding petrol and diesel!!

 

[Bob]

this from JCB explaining a bit about problems

This element is still a work in progress, as laser-like accuracy is required to get a consistent mix of light hydrogen and heavy air – and thus a consistent power output – in the 72 milliseconds between injection and combustion.

© JCB
Timing of the spark is also essential – too early and the engine will knock, which isn’t conducive to a long life; too late and it won’t burn efficiently and completely.

Unlike the efforts of BMW and Ford in the noughties with their Hydrogen 7-series and “Tiny” research vehicle, respectively, JCB reckons it has found a way of running an exceptionally lean mix of 1% hydrogen and 99% air.

This fuel-light blend solves the major challenge with hydrogen combustion – keeping the temperature down to minimise the amount of nitrogen oxide emissions that need to be cleaned up with a selective catalytic reduction (SCR) module.

And with no carbon going into the engine, no carbon dioxide comes out.

The main by-product is water, so making sure all the vapour leaves through the exhaust is essential to avoid it loitering around the combustion system.

To minimise the risk of any problems, owners will probably have to use specialist engine oil that carries more anti-corrosion agents to avoid emulsification and, conversely, fewer carbon dispersants because hydrogen is far cleaner burning.

What’s performance like?​

JCB currently has a team of white-coated technicians monitoring emissions, power, torque and fuel consumption, as well as the influence of things such as cold weather and altitude on those parameters.

So far, power and torque curves are near-identical to the diesel-powered version.

We saw the first prototype running at 1,500rpm and there was little to distinguish it from an orthodox oil-burner, aside from a softer, turbo-dominated engine note – akin to that of a petrol.

 

[Gecko]

Making an engine work on a particular fuel is subject to a lot of parameters (such as 'mixing' mentioned above).
eg. americans like their 1/4 mile engine that run on methanol. Methanol has half the energy density of petrol/diesel, so you need twice as much of it. In reality, you pour in way more fuel than you need and the unburnt fuel ejected out the exhaust serves to remove a lot of heat from the engine.

Comparing fuels:
Methanol 23 MJ/kg
Petrol/Diesel 45 MJ/kg
Hydrogen 130 MJ/kg

From those numbers, you can see that you "could" get the same power from 1/3 the fuel input (if you can make it work).

Heat values of various fuels - World Nuclear Association

Heat Values of various fuels allowing comparison of different forms of energy

world-nuclear.org

 

[V8Druid]

Battery generator saves carbon at Stoke Goods Yard

Bowmer & Kirkland, an early adopter of energy saving technology on construction sites, has been impressed by a battery generator.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

so all they've done is moved the C production from site to somewhere else ..... no savings had anywhere - probably increased .. tw*ts

 

[V8Druid]

Electric mixer truck passes trials

The UK’s first all-electric ready-mix concrete mixer has completed a three-month trial of commercial deliveries across Birmingham for Tarmac.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

Anglesey Council goes for electric skidsteer loaders

Isle of Anglesey County Council has taken delivery of two battery-powered skidsteer loaders for its waste recycling centres.

email.theconstructionindex.co.uk

wonder how many times they've had to drag these out the way/home to base

again .. all that's been done is move the C from one location to a.n.other

Loads of E-chariots on charge at centerparks last week - all week --- plug 'em in Monday on arrival, unplug 'em Friday on departure.
No way will their model of working ever work, with everything electrified ..... they'd need their own Rolls Royce mini nuclear plant to run the site and charge everything that arrives there .... must be getting on for 1000 cars arrive/depart twice a week