V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
trouble is we've bred an 'entitled' generation who expect it all for nothing / no effort
JD450A
Feral as Fk 🐾
Bigger issue is a pointless apprenticeship system that really is hit and miss and pays worse than dropping out.
£4hr starting rate...... "But your learning" yeah nah piss off.
CITB have alot to answer for.
Quattromike
Well member-known
I believe the schools have to take a bit of the blame. Any pupils with a smidge of intellect they force the to university and teach them that trades and blue collar work is for low intellect and misfits (no offense Rory) but in actual fact people with a bit of a brain can make a good living and good life in the skilled work market. And allot of the brain washed forced to further education to better themselves can end up with a harder hill to climb to get the same level of living.
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Brendan
Well-known member
Plus on the flip side, a girl on site had best part of 50k in tuition fees and was the lowest paid person on site and a fair bit under the labourer wage, sure in a few years she should be able to progress up the ladder at her work or changing companies but still won't potentially earn as much as a proper trade
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Russell
Well-known member
This
When I was training to be an electrician there were nippers taken on for the apprentice year at rubbish wages, then, the following year when their wages had to go up to minimum wage they were got rid of.
Regardless of how old you are to be fully qualified electrician you have to do a apprenticeship so must do a year at £4 a hour or whatever it is.
Who wants to crawl around in loft insulation for s**t money when you can go to a super market keep clean and probably earn twice as much.
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Brendan
Well-known member
To be fair if people haven't got the foresight to see or understand, that within another two or three years they will potentially earn double or more for the rest of their lives than their mates who worked in a shop
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Russell
Well-known member
Yes they might be on better money in the end, when they go self employed, and build up a company from nothing. Where I live that would take longer than 2-3 years. I don't think you should penalize the person doing the extra training, home work and stress with super s**t (less than minimum) wages.
Where I live a properly employed not agency hire and fire spark is on £120 a day. That would take at least 5-6 years to get to from what I have seen.
Where I live a properly employed not agency hire and fire spark is on £120 a day. That would take at least 5-6 years to get to from what I have seen.
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Brendan
Well-known member
But most apprentices live at home, don't have a car to insure or legally able to go to bars to spend their money.
Apprentice wages are low but everyone tends to forget that minimum wage for their age isn't a great deal higher either, plus once they pass the first year they are entitled to minimum wage for their age brackets.
Supermarkets pay higher wages but I would imagine they will still, only pay people under 21 their minimum wage brackets
Bri963
Well-known member
My lad is 16, did 5 hours washing up in a Chinkie and got paid £4 an hour plus as much seaweed as he could eat. When he turned up they pointed to the sink and left him to it, didn’t even talk to him. He isn’t going back.
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
JD450A
Feral as Fk 🐾
C
Chase Building
Member
I was 20 when I started my engineering apprenticeship, and all but one of the 14 who started were over 18.
Almost everyone we were at college with was also over 18 and had cars, saving towards houses etc.
Company dropped a bollock with our pay after the first year and ended up having to back pay all of us that were over 21 by then.
JD450A
Feral as Fk 🐾
Trouble for me with our industry and apprenticeships is always the fact that our industry training and competency standards are that low that it's just not correct or sensible to compare the pay offs to say a mechanical engineering apprenticeship or even a sparkys apprenticeship.
There are two issues with this....
1) If your job at the end of a apprenticeship can be done by Darrell who has been put on a weeks course by Lazy Bastards Plus then is your qualification actually worth a toss?
2) If Darrell is on site earning £12 hr driving a forklift that your more than capable of piloting and your earning £4 and a thruppenny bit a hour are you honesty going to stay doing a shite apprenticeship for another 1-2 years?
There are two issues with this....
1) If your job at the end of a apprenticeship can be done by Darrell who has been put on a weeks course by Lazy Bastards Plus then is your qualification actually worth a toss?
2) If Darrell is on site earning £12 hr driving a forklift that your more than capable of piloting and your earning £4 and a thruppenny bit a hour are you honesty going to stay doing a shite apprenticeship for another 1-2 years?
Lancs Lad
Well-known member
Been pondering this...I reckon we could do with closing the borders and a deadly virus to empty the gene pool a bit which would create demand...oh wait ...
J
Jimoz
Well-known member
20 quid cash in his claw. Probably not the worst deal in the world. If he could up the snacks to a bit of a free meal at end of shift then I think its a good deal for an unskilled kid.
doobin
Well-known member
There is no career progression in a Chinese takeaway unless you have slitty eyes, and no chance of pride in a job well done either. Couldn’t you find your lad some trade work to have a crack at?
S
Smiffy
Well-known member
But this is due to construction becoming a dumping ground for idiots, and lazy idiots at that.
Further compounded by alot of big companies where people go to start off having no regards for the standard of work at all.
Then finnaly a mentality that tickets are everything.
It only takes 5 minutes on Facebook to see an operator moaning about having to actually do some work walking off site then a post further down complaining that machine drivers are treated like crap, yet they can't even understand that they cause the problem themselves by being self righteous twats.
Grahams
Don't complain - suggest what's better
Apprenticeships only seem to work if there is a reasonable amount of skill involved and at the end of it you get a qualification that you need by law to do the job like gas fitters, etc thereby restricting the competion and you should be able to earn good money the rest of your life.
There also seems to be a big attitude problem on both sides. Youngsters aren't used to being treated like sh** these days and to be honest why should they have to put up with it. There are grotty jobs that need doing, but there is no need to make the appentices life difficult for the sake of it. "It's only having a laugh" is very different than most have been brought up to. Also there seems no loyalty so once qualified there seems a lot of job changeing got 50p.
It does seem a huge culture shock for a lot of teenagers that they are expected to turn up on time and do what they are told, a lot of schools don't work like that.
If they really want to be an "influencer" they need to do what most of these people did and get on youtube or wherever they are on these days in the evenings and weekends until they have a big enough following to quit the day job - if they don't start it will never happen (even if they do start it probably won't, but atleast they were a contender rather than just all talk).
There also seems to be a big attitude problem on both sides. Youngsters aren't used to being treated like sh** these days and to be honest why should they have to put up with it. There are grotty jobs that need doing, but there is no need to make the appentices life difficult for the sake of it. "It's only having a laugh" is very different than most have been brought up to. Also there seems no loyalty so once qualified there seems a lot of job changeing got 50p.
It does seem a huge culture shock for a lot of teenagers that they are expected to turn up on time and do what they are told, a lot of schools don't work like that.
If they really want to be an "influencer" they need to do what most of these people did and get on youtube or wherever they are on these days in the evenings and weekends until they have a big enough following to quit the day job - if they don't start it will never happen (even if they do start it probably won't, but atleast they were a contender rather than just all talk).
Furniss
Well-known member
Polands the answer ...... but wait.... too late they arent alowed in no more
I was parked up next to a big supermarket construction site the other day and I didnt hear one french person.... they were all eastern European.
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Jimoz
Well-known member
Better than smoking spliffs in the park (although I know what I'd of preferred at 14 or 15). 20 quid for a nights work I honestly don't think is terrible for a kid. Obviously it's no career like you say
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