Petrol or electric chainsaw?

[Gecko]

All good points and yes, some of my logs (like the one above) have been under floodwater and has traces of silt. However, even on clean timber, a steel chain is very dull.
by the time the tank is empty. The last few cuts are always a balance to decide when the chain is "blunt".
A interesting point about carbide not being as sharp as the first cut with steel, but certainly sharper than the last 80%.

Lubing is also an interesting point. The oil pump is direct drive, so the volume of oil delivered is solely dependent on engine speed, not load. If you load up the saw and pull the revs down, it won't get a lot of oil regardless of the chain you are running.

 

[Smiffy]

All good points and yes, some of my logs (like the one above) have been under floodwater and has traces of silt. However, even on clean timber, a steel chain is very dull.
by the time the tank is empty. The last few cuts are always a balance to decide when the chain is "blunt".
A interesting point about carbide not being as sharp as the first cut with steel, but certainly sharper than the last 80%.

Lubing is also an interesting point. The oil pump is direct drive, so the volume of oil delivered is solely dependent on engine speed, not load. If you load up the saw and pull the revs down, it won't get a lot of oil regardless of the chain you are running.

But the engine speed will be directly geared to how far the chain travels so regardless of how fast the engine is running the chain will always receive the se volume of oil per meter covered

Also if your logs are dirty it is often more efficient to strip the bark off half the tree with axe to expose clean timber to save blunting chains
You only need to remove bark from the side furthest from the powerhead as that will be drag through the whole cut
Whereas the side closest the powerhead will be instantly spat out giving no chance to damage chains
The same goes for moss and ivy as they both harbour grit that fills saws

 

[Monkeybusiness]

All good points and yes, some of my logs (like the one above) have been under floodwater and has traces of silt. However, even on clean timber, a steel chain is very dull.
by the time the tank is empty. The last few cuts are always a balance to decide when the chain is "blunt".
A interesting point about carbide not being as sharp as the first cut with steel, but certainly sharper than the last 80%.

Lubing is also an interesting point. The oil pump is direct drive, so the volume of oil delivered is solely dependent on engine speed, not load. If you load up the saw and pull the revs down, it won't get a lot of oil regardless of the chain you are running.

Oil burns off overheated bars/chains, and the problem worsens as you don’t benefit from lubrication or cooling.
You must be cutting dirty timber or catching the ground if you have a blunt chain after every tankful IMO, or have low quality chains.
(If you do have to cut dirty timber, try boring in and running the saw with the pulling chain dragging directly out of the log - this flicks the contamination out of the cut and helps stop recycling it - it doesn’t prevent wear but it does help limit it).

 

[Gecko]

You guys know I'm sawing Down Under - right?
Our timbers are .... different to what you are used to.
There is tree called Ironbark. An 18" diam. log will require more than one sharpen per cut. One sharpen per tank is easy to put up with after you've worked with that.

Edit: Two other points about Ironbark
1. it makes magnificent furniture
2. it has a density greater then 1 - meaning when you drop it in water, it sinks.

But the engine speed will be directly geared to how far the chain travels so regardless of how fast the engine is running the chain will always receive the se volume of oil per meter covered

Exactly - the oil delivery is proportional to speed, not load. If you load the saw excessively, the revs drop, the oil supply drops, but the heat increases, the viscosity drops, the oil boundary layer gets too thin and you have metal to metal contact.

 

[doobin]

That's not my experience, but it probably depends how the saw is being used.
I use tungsten carbide chains on the big saws and I can bury a 20" bar into hardwood.
I get one cut before the chain needs readjusting, then it's good for the rest of the tank.
Failing to slacken it off gives you something you can play notes on.

That'll be because tungsten is basically like cutting with a slightly blunt chain. It's the nature of the beast- it's exactly the same with lathe cutters. Only difference when turning is that the turnings take away the heat- on the saw chain, that chain is going to heat up quickly.

 

[Monkeybusiness]

You guys know I'm sawing Down Under - right?
Our timbers are .... different to what you are used to.
There is tree called Ironbark. An 18" diam. log will require more than one sharpen per cut. One sharpen per tank is easy to put up with after you've worked with that.

If that’s the case I’d just push it all into a pile and burn it!!!
Freaky-deeky country, everything wants to kill you/eat you/make your life a misery one way or another!...

 

[Gecko]

it's exactly the same with lathe cutters.

Hmmm ... not really.
A lathe insert is sintered and the first you know it's loosing it's edge, it chips and it's all over.
A carbide chain has inserts brazed onto a steel carrier exactly like a circular saw blade
And is ground sharp like any other saw tooth

I'm not seeing anything that looks blunt on those chains.

Only difference when turning is that the turnings take away the heat

Not sure I see you point here. The swaf does carry away a lot of heat, but then so does do the chips from a log (you only need to grab a handful after a cut to feel the heat).
The lathe I am most familiar is a Daewoo lynx 210. The coolant pump is rated at 0.5hp (0.4kW) and delivers coolant at a rate something like 1 liter per second - that's what is keeping the tool cool.

everything wants to kill you/eat you/make your life a misery one way or another!...

you talking about the wildlife or the politicians?!

 

[doobin]

Carbide will never be as sharp as HSS as far as I’m concerned. Metal swarf takes away way more heat that wood chips- that’s why you can judge how far you’re pushing a large by the colour of the swarf.
Nothing wrong with carbide in the right application, but I’d never even consider in for UK trees in a saw chain. No idea about oz trees.

 

[Gecko]

Metal swarf takes away way more heat that wood chips

True, but it takes a lot more energy to produce too.
One point not mentioned so far is that a lathe tool is in 100% contact with the work-piece during a cut. A chainsaw tooth, even in a deep cut is probably less than 30%. That gives the tooth a lot of cooling time.

Nothing wrong with carbide in the right application,

Agree completely. There are more applications where carbide is less/unsuitable than there are where it excels (given the price, if it doesn't excel, you don't want it).
After all, the links are the same, the pins are the same. The chain doesn't last any longer. If you don't remember the last time you sharpened you chain, you definitely don't want one. If there is any chance you'll touch a rock or some steel, unlike a steel chain, the carbide cutters will shatter.

 

[doobin]

Can we at least agree that the only reason you experience chain stretch if because you are using a specialist carbide chain? And that chain stretch doesn't otherwise occur past the running in period unless you are abusing the cutting gear?

I can see from your pic of the red gum that carbide isn't as sharp as normal chains- it's piles of dust, not shavings. I agree with @Monkeybusiness , stick it in a pile and burn it all!

Really interesting to see how different things are the other side of the world!

 

[Gecko]

Can we at least agree that the only reason you experience chain stretch if because you are using a specialist carbide chain?

Can't say I've noticed a difference between a steel chain and carbide going slack when it warms up

And that chain stretch doesn't otherwise occur past the running in period unless you are abusing the cutting gear?

Nope - as it warms up, it goes slack and needs adjusting

I think I've worked it out - you know you can start the engine before sawing ?

I can see from your pic of the red gum that carbide isn't as sharp as normal chains- it's piles of dust, not shavings.

It does look powery - I'll find the original pic and see if I can zoom in enough to ID the chain

 

[doobin]

Then you must have some bloody abrasive wood. I didn't adjust my chain once cutting this lot, and it's all ash grown on the side of hill, so slow grown and tough. Can't bore cut unless the rakers are totally stock.

You do have the oiler turned all the way up don't you?

 

[Gecko]

My 034 had an adjustable oiler when new, but I think that was dropped with later revisions
My MS360 has no adjustment, but the oil tank is about 90% empty when the fuel run out - that's about right.
I don't think the MS170 has an adjustable oiler either (didn't this thread start with an MS170!)

 

[Smiffy]

My 034 had an adjustable oiler when new, but I think that was dropped with later revisions
My MS360 has no adjustment, but the oil tank is about 90% empty when the fuel run out - that's about right.
I don't think the MS170 has an adjustable oiler either (didn't this thread start with an MS170!)

Do they have different variations over there as I'm sure all Stihl saws in the UK have adjustable oiler

 

[doobin]

My 034 had an adjustable oiler when new, but I think that was dropped with later revisions
My MS360 has no adjustment, but the oil tank is about 90% empty when the fuel run out - that's about right.
I don't think the MS170 has an adjustable oiler either (didn't this thread start with an MS170!)

If your wood is that abrasive, it could well be worth your while fitting an uprated oiler. This is quite common in the UK- Stihl fit small oilers to be 'green', but when you're cutting with a larger bar particularly on dry dead wood, it's not enough. I think the oiler from an MS440 would fit- ask on arbtalk.

 

[Smiffy]

Is this wood for firewood or cut prior to going through a saw mill ??

 

[Monkeybusiness]

That’s a 4 foot bar on a MS880 (a totally pointless saw for 99% of UK treework - the 3 foot bar on the 660 is big enough for just about anything we tend to encounter).

I’ve included the pic as that saw spent most of a day buried in a massive windblown oak, ringing it up into pieces my timber trailer’s grab could pick up. We put a couple of gallons of fuel through the saw, resharpened a couple of times due to contamination, but didn’t need to keep adjusting chain tension, and didn’t need to slacken off at the end of the day.

That is about as extreme an example of a normal saw chain being worked as you’ll find over here. I guess we have different conditions to you in Oz (nothing wanted to kill me for a start!).

 

[Mogman]

That’s a 4 foot bar on a MS880 (a totally pointless saw for 99% of UK treework - the 3 foot bar on the 660 is big enough for just about anything we tend to encounter).

I’ve included the pic as that saw spent most of a day buried in a massive windblown oak, ringing it up into pieces my timber trailer’s grab could pick up. We put a couple of gallons of fuel through the saw, resharpened a couple of times due to contamination, but didn’t need to keep adjusting chain tension, and didn’t need to slacken off at the end of the day.

That is about as extreme an example of a normal saw chain being worked as you’ll find over here. I guess we have different conditions to you in Oz (nothing wanted to kill me for a start!).


View attachment 12451View attachment 12453

that’s not a 4’ bar your only 4’6” I’ve met you remember

 

[Monkeybusiness]

that’s not a 4’ bar your only 4’6” I’ve met you remember

Sshhhh, the Ozzy bloke doesn’t know that!

 

[V8Druid]

That’s a 4 foot bar on a MS880 ..... that saw spent most of a day buried in a massive windblown oak, ringing it up into pieces my timber trailer’s grab could pick up.

That is about as extreme an example of a normal saw chain being worked as you’ll find over here.


View attachment 12451

that was some tree