V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
.... is the fuel tank breather clear? usually in the cap
...could be a little gauze filter in a banjo union blocking up ?
Mick-the-fitter
It’s what I do!
We can move on from there if you really want to get your hands dirty! To eliminate hydraulics unbolt the pumps and move them away from the engine, try starting then!
M
muckyman
Active member
Make sure the glow plugs are working
T
Tacitus
Active member
No updates on the issue?
S
sandbags89
Member
okay, apologies for the delay in update, been a bit busy so haven't had a chance.
Since my last post I have replaced hoses and also had someone in to come look at it and had the injectors tested and overhauled.
Have confirmed that plenty of fuel is getting to where it should be so can rule that out.
The fella that came down was bit baffled himself, and believed it would most-likely be the injectors, so he took them away and had them tested. Apparently they were "knackered" ...who knows if that was true or not, but just have to take the engineers word at this stage i suppose. He had them overhauled also and seemed pretty sure they'd work, but they've gone back in and no luck.... same as before.
So I am not left which much else but to suspect compression. I also ordered a compression kit, nothing fancy but just to see if it was noticeably low...
this kit only had a thread that fit my glow plug, and i was only able to test one as the other plug had an obstruction and couldn't get the bulky tester in there.
The reading was 300psi. I wasn't sure that was particularly low, but after another bit of online research I found that this engine 2tne68 should have compression of 3.24mpa, which according to online converter equals around 470psi, which would mean we are at low compression.
So that's where I am with my thoughts at the moment. May consider getting another compression tester that fits the injectors (i returned the other kit) but tbh it sounds like i am going to have to investigate what the cause could be anyway. My only worry is I haven't tackled anything like this before, so at this stage not sure where to start. Haven't stripped engine down to cylinders before. From what i've read I should be looking at gasket and piston rings, and a few other common causes. So i expect i'll just be taking injectors and plugs all back out, and start removing bolts and taking layers of the engine til i get to cylinders...
As usual I appreciate your thoughts and advice.
If anyone feels as though they would have the patience to guide me through this one that would be great, although you may need to explain like im 5 haha.
yes this looks all clear mate
the plugs are new and definitely work. I took them out and tested them usings some wire and a battery and they glowed up. I could not get them to work whilst still wired via the engine (i took them out there sockets, leaving them connected and turned on the ignition and no glow... it's possible i just wasn't grounding them properly. I did do this previously with the old man and did get them working using this second method) anyway I mentioned this to the engineer and he said, with this current weather (was a warm day) that it would start even without plugs.
Since my last post I have replaced hoses and also had someone in to come look at it and had the injectors tested and overhauled.
Have confirmed that plenty of fuel is getting to where it should be so can rule that out.
The fella that came down was bit baffled himself, and believed it would most-likely be the injectors, so he took them away and had them tested. Apparently they were "knackered" ...who knows if that was true or not, but just have to take the engineers word at this stage i suppose. He had them overhauled also and seemed pretty sure they'd work, but they've gone back in and no luck.... same as before.
So I am not left which much else but to suspect compression. I also ordered a compression kit, nothing fancy but just to see if it was noticeably low...
this kit only had a thread that fit my glow plug, and i was only able to test one as the other plug had an obstruction and couldn't get the bulky tester in there.
The reading was 300psi. I wasn't sure that was particularly low, but after another bit of online research I found that this engine 2tne68 should have compression of 3.24mpa, which according to online converter equals around 470psi, which would mean we are at low compression.
So that's where I am with my thoughts at the moment. May consider getting another compression tester that fits the injectors (i returned the other kit) but tbh it sounds like i am going to have to investigate what the cause could be anyway. My only worry is I haven't tackled anything like this before, so at this stage not sure where to start. Haven't stripped engine down to cylinders before. From what i've read I should be looking at gasket and piston rings, and a few other common causes. So i expect i'll just be taking injectors and plugs all back out, and start removing bolts and taking layers of the engine til i get to cylinders...
As usual I appreciate your thoughts and advice.
If anyone feels as though they would have the patience to guide me through this one that would be great, although you may need to explain like im 5 haha.
yes this looks all clear mate
the plugs are new and definitely work. I took them out and tested them usings some wire and a battery and they glowed up. I could not get them to work whilst still wired via the engine (i took them out there sockets, leaving them connected and turned on the ignition and no glow... it's possible i just wasn't grounding them properly. I did do this previously with the old man and did get them working using this second method) anyway I mentioned this to the engineer and he said, with this current weather (was a warm day) that it would start even without plugs.
S
sandbags89
Member
thanks mate, went through your list. I agree it seems to be compression related (as per my previous post suggests)
in regards to your points:
- tried with different batteries.
- connections and earthing seem good.
- I can not see signs of isolator or find anything in manuals etc.
- i did a full oil change so shouldn't be any contamination.
i just posted a full update so please see that, thanks mate
M
Maxus
Well-known member
I think it's worth replacing the starter motor, at least removing it and inspecting it.
diggerjones
Well-known member
I have 2 diggers and a smaĺl tractor with 3 cylinder engine and with out heat in any weather they struggle to start
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
as said before, the amount of fuel you've pushed into the bores, they'll be washed clean and you will struggle to achieve any decent compression, 'til you've lubed those bores ... amazed you have 300psi TBH
S
sandbags89
Member
I see, so how would I go about that mate, you said squirt some oil into the injector holes once its whizzing over... so squirt some as the engines turning over trying to start? I recall turning it over with the injectors out previously and it bursts out a load of air from the injector holes.as said before, the amount of fuel you've pushed into the bores, they'll be washed clean and you will struggle to achieve any decent compression, 'til you've lubed those bores ... amazed you have 300psi TBH
once i questioned whether they were heating up when connected, I also connected them directly to the battery but still no start up
what would i be looking for mate. once removed what are the signs to identify any issues?
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
pop the injectors out and put a couple of cc,s into each cylinder STATIONARY ... it'll find its way down the bores and'll up your CR, when you do eventually try to start it, once you've refitted the injectors ... will smoke a bit if it does go, but don't panic - it'll clear when the oil burns out ... and once running the bores'll get lubed up conventionally by the crank splashing oil about in't sump
M
Maxus
Well-known member
I think as you said the engine was running poorly, maybe starter isn't the issue. But if you do decide it's worth a look it's not to difficult to remove, strip down and clean. Check to see if brushes have worn. This video is helpful. Sorry it's in Dutch!
T
Tacitus
Active member
Master Milo! He is hilarious, I remember watching him restore a russian tank ... ha ha.
Regarding the no starting issue ... clearly we are all missing something.
Nothing harder than giving instructions based on someone else's perception.
At this point I would do what Druid suggests. Take the plugs out, squirt some oil in them to eliminate low compression. I would go further and use a mixture of oil and oil additive that increases viscosity, like Nulon worn engine for example. That will give you temporary good compression.
Fit plugs back, buy a new battery and a can of ether.
Yes, I know, Ether is no good. Be scarce with it but ... what Ether is good for is to see if there is a fuel supply issue. If the engine starts on Ether and stops, you have no fuel supply or rather not in the atomised way it is required to ignite. Your mechanic may have cleaned the injectors but your pump may not deliver the pressure required for them to work properly. I am always a bit suss about injectors overhauling. This procedure requires to lap the needle in the nozzle and test the spray cone angle and the needle seal in a test bench. No one does that anymore, and overhauling means using some commercial cleaner to remove carbon and hope for the best.
Watch the speed of your starter motor whit the oil in the cylinders. If it is not 'allegro con moto' it's no good. A starter motor that goes 'andante' is not going to give you the umph necessary.
Allegro:
Andante:
Regarding the no starting issue ... clearly we are all missing something.
Nothing harder than giving instructions based on someone else's perception.
At this point I would do what Druid suggests. Take the plugs out, squirt some oil in them to eliminate low compression. I would go further and use a mixture of oil and oil additive that increases viscosity, like Nulon worn engine for example. That will give you temporary good compression.
Fit plugs back, buy a new battery and a can of ether.
Yes, I know, Ether is no good. Be scarce with it but ... what Ether is good for is to see if there is a fuel supply issue. If the engine starts on Ether and stops, you have no fuel supply or rather not in the atomised way it is required to ignite. Your mechanic may have cleaned the injectors but your pump may not deliver the pressure required for them to work properly. I am always a bit suss about injectors overhauling. This procedure requires to lap the needle in the nozzle and test the spray cone angle and the needle seal in a test bench. No one does that anymore, and overhauling means using some commercial cleaner to remove carbon and hope for the best.
Watch the speed of your starter motor whit the oil in the cylinders. If it is not 'allegro con moto' it's no good. A starter motor that goes 'andante' is not going to give you the umph necessary.
Allegro:
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
yep .... if the battery/starter combination doesn't fling it over and the compression isn't there to create the pressure required, it'll never compress the fuel charge adequately enough to ignite it ....At this point I would do what Druid suggests. Take the plugs out, squirt some oil in them to eliminate low compression. I would go further and use a mixture of oil and oil additive that increases viscosity, like Nulon worn engine for example. That will give you temporary good compression.
Fit plugs back, buy a new battery and a can of ether.
Watch the speed of your starter motor whit the oil in the cylinders. If it is not 'allegro con moto' it's no good. A starter motor that goes 'andante' is not going to give you the umph necessary.
S
sandbags89
Member
okay will give this a shot today. couple ccs of oil is what, say half a cap of its normal engine oil?
Master Milo! He is hilarious, I remember watching him restore a russian tank ... ha ha.
Regarding the no starting issue ... clearly we are all missing something.
Nothing harder than giving instructions based on someone else's perception.
At this point I would do what Druid suggests. Take the plugs out, squirt some oil in them to eliminate low compression. I would go further and use a mixture of oil and oil additive that increases viscosity, like Nulon worn engine for example. That will give you temporary good compression.
Fit plugs back, buy a new battery and a can of ether.
Yes, I know, Ether is no good. Be scarce with it but ... what Ether is good for is to see if there is a fuel supply issue. If the engine starts on Ether and stops, you have no fuel supply or rather not in the atomised way it is required to ignite. Your mechanic may have cleaned the injectors but your pump may not deliver the pressure required for them to work properly. I am always a bit suss about injectors overhauling. This procedure requires to lap the needle in the nozzle and test the spray cone angle and the needle seal in a test bench. No one does that anymore, and overhauling means using some commercial cleaner to remove carbon and hope for the best.
Watch the speed of your starter motor whit the oil in the cylinders. If it is not 'allegro con moto' it's no good. A starter motor that goes 'andante' is not going to give you the umph necessary.
Allegro:
Andante:
i wish this thing sounded as elegant as either of those examples! Will give the oil trick a try, don't have any nulon at hand.engineer that came down gave it some shots of engine starter when he was having a go.
Dutch or not, very helpful! Yes will give this a go afterwards if the oil trick doesn't help. i'll try find it, I assume theyre fairly easy to access. If its oxidisation issue that would be nice haha.
thanks
S
sandbags89
Member
okay so just come back inside from sweating my arse off in the sun tinkering with it.
No joy with the oil in the injectors trick.
and even less joy trying to locate the starter motor quite tight and difficult to look into.
i THINK it may be located underneath the exhaust manifold. But i've searched up some images for starter motor for this engine and looks different to what im seeing down there.
No joy with the oil in the injectors trick.
and even less joy trying to locate the starter motor
quite tight and difficult to look into.i THINK it may be located underneath the exhaust manifold. But i've searched up some images for starter motor for this engine and looks different to what im seeing down there.
S
sandbags89
Member
as mentioned before was considering dismantling the engine to check gaskets or other signs for compression issue. but someone on another forum mentioned, that although I could probably dismantle it myself, finding the cause of it would be another issue and repairing it would have to be done by a pro.
The great pain of all this is that its stuck in my garden with no possibility of being budged. Be so much easier if i could slap it on a trailer and take it to someones workshop. But i have to get a mobile engineer (finding one is a challenge in itself in London) which is going to be double expensive of course. Also, can the engine even be rebuilt on site if needed?
at this rate i'm gonna have to consider making it a garden feature
The great pain of all this is that its stuck in my garden with no possibility of being budged. Be so much easier if i could slap it on a trailer and take it to someones workshop. But i have to get a mobile engineer (finding one is a challenge in itself in London) which is going to be double expensive of course. Also, can the engine even be rebuilt on site if needed?
at this rate i'm gonna have to consider making it a garden feature
doobin
Well-known member
Yup, thats your starter. Might just about be able to get it off once you've removed the exhaust.
Would be worth attaching a jump pack directly to the starter just to rule out any battery/cable issues.
You say no possibility of being budged- won't it start with a sniff of ether?
Would be worth attaching a jump pack directly to the starter just to rule out any battery/cable issues.
You say no possibility of being budged- won't it start with a sniff of ether?
S
sandbags89
Member
nope. not got any ether but tried some other easy start stuff as did the engineer who came down.
okay, well maybe i'll get the exhaust off when i next get a chance and see if i can get to the starter. Yea i'll try powering it directly also.
doobin
Well-known member
If it won't start on easy start then it's unlikely to be the starter unless it's like a snail.
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