What have I bought

[Gecko]

red lead and red oxide're two very different animals

Yep - the red oxide is (was) zinc chromate.
Red lead (last time I looked (and I wasn't in the uk/eu)), could still be had if you knew where to look.
(Hint: historic timber boats need special paint below the water line to keep burrowing worms at bay - a ships chandeler has many things you thought you couldn't get)

 

[V8Druid]

Yep - the red oxide is (was) zinc chromate.
Red lead (last time I looked (and I wasn't in the uk/eu)), could still be had if you knew where to look.
(Hint: historic timber boats need special paint below the water line to keep burrowing worms at bay - a ships chandeler has many things you thought you couldn't get)

.... is now zinc phosphate (HBZP) .... Nice tip @Gecko

 

[Furniss]

My final thoughts on the JCB bashing....... I know of men much smarter than Me ( some on here)who are running successful outfits and choose JCB ... this constant bashing is pretty much an insult to their intelligence, im sure if they were that bad no no amount of desire to support british industry or brand loyalty would make them part with their money.

 

[JD450A]

if they were that bad no no amount of desire to support british industry or brand loyalty would make them part with their money.

Spot on.

To be fair, I'd argue right now that the X Series, and there latest mini/midi excavators are among the best available. Certainly from a operators perspective. A good friend has done the deal on a 5 tonner over a Takeuchi.... And I'd of done the same and have said as much. (possibly before the deal was signed when my opinion was asked)

But they are ruined by penny pinching accountants and poor finish... and unfortunately the finish is the thing that will leave a sour taste with many.

Simple reality is if you don't moan notes aren't taken. The reality of why the X series isn't a outdated turd like the last incarnations of the JS is the feedback they have accumulated and put into the design. I just hope there ears are pricked up.

 

[Gecko]

With respect, when you buy something (be it an excavator, a beer or a Rolls Royce),one of the things you are buying is the right to bitch about it!
And JCB has developed a poor reputation in recent years regarding their paint.
(for references, I have a JCB and I've been painting it with a brush - it's 20 years old and has lost paint due to hard work and not poor quality paint/painting)

 

[Lancs Lad]

Interesting thread this, bit like Landrovers I guess love/hate and not much of a work truck but seems a crying Shame we can't throw our support behind a British brand (death by social media) in times when we could really do with a "local" brand. Look at the Swedes...anyone that's ever been will tell you how they throw there loyalty firmly at "their" brand.
Yes I know there's questions about ownership of these brands JLR etc etc but just my ramblings..

 

[Gecko]

Oh FFS, what is wrong with me? I've got a Landy too (and I don't live in the UK).

 

[JD450A]

Interesting thread this, bit like Landrovers I guess love/hate and not much of a work truck but seems a crying Shame we can't throw our support behind a British brand

If British brands responded to there own market and there traditional users they would have more of a chance. Accountants tend to attack sadly.

Landrover is a classic example.... The defender love it or hate it was a iconic utility vehicle and it's ability to be turned into various roles sold it.... Cherry Pickers, Fire Appliances, Tippers, Hiabs and myriads of other specialist applications other than van or pickup. I hate em..... But i've two in my yard to go back on the road as there will soon come a time we can't get anything else suitable.....

They stopped making them for obvious reasons, it was a design from the f****ng 60's and that's being generous, uncomfortable, outdated and questionably safe. But the Accountants have clearly looked and decided that commercial vehicles don't make money and so the Defender is now a Freelander with a different body. The opportunity was missed to create something simple, reliable, and adaptable. Yes it's not going to make a fortune quickly but it would continue to be out there......

JCB 3cx - People keep telling us Backhoe's died in the early 2000's but realistically when did anyone put any effort into innovation with them......

 

[Lancs Lad]

If British brands responded to there own market and there traditional users they would have more of a chance. Accountants tend to attack sadly.

Landrover is a classic example.... The defender love it or hate it was a iconic utility vehicle and it's ability to be turned into various roles sold it.... Cherry Pickers, Fire Appliances, Tippers, Hiabs and myriads of other specialist applications other than van or pickup. I hate em..... But i've two in my yard to go back on the road as there will soon come a time we can't get anything else suitable.....

They stopped making them for obvious reasons, it was a design from the f****ng 60's and that's being generous, uncomfortable, outdated and questionably safe. But the Accountants have clearly looked and decided that commercial vehicles don't make money and so the Defender is now a Freelander with a different body. The opportunity was missed to create something simple, reliable, and adaptable. Yes it's not going to make a fortune quickly but it would continue to be out there......

JCB 3cx - People keep telling us Backhoe's died in the early 2000's but realistically when did anyone put any effort into innovation with them......

All true..sadly.
Went on a factory tour at halewood a bit back...guy took round "why make a 30k that causes loads of hassle and last fir ever when you can sell 70k cars all day long that folk keep for 3 years max..." Sad but hey that's life. Incidentally the new Defender is a bloody nice car...had one for a bit. I'll get my coat.

 

[GazCro]

All true..sadly.
Went on a factory tour at halewood a bit back...guy took round "why make a 30k that causes loads of hassle and last fir ever when you can sell 70k cars all day long that folk keep for 3 years max..." Sad but hey that's life. Incidentally the new Defender is a bloody nice car...had one for a bit. I'll get my coat.

Exactly right that and as you say new defender is a bloody nice car which I'm sure it is. The sooner the work orientated folk get their head round the fact its not been made for them the better.

 

[Bri963]

My final thoughts on the JCB bashing....... I know of men much smarter than Me ( some on here)who are running successful outfits and choose JCB ... this constant bashing is pretty much an insult to their intelligence, im sure if they were that bad no no amount of desire to support british industry or brand loyalty would make them part with their money.

nothing to do with insulting people’s intelligence. I’ve seen more positive than negative about JCB on here. I’m not insulted when people knock Kubota (got a K008-3) or Cat (worked for them for over twenty years). A lot of how much you spend to keep any machine working is down to how you look after it, but it’s fair to Comment if your experience is less than satisfactory.

You go to northern Sweden and you won’t often see anything but Volvo shovels, excavators and graders other than in the big mines. Is it because they’re more nationalistic than us? Or is it because they happen to be home to a manufacturer who does make sure that what goes out of the factory is the best product they can make? For information, my experience with JCB has been mixed, loved the black cab 3CX’s, and 814 Supers, love the 100C during the brief periods when not replacing parts on it. If I’d had the misfortune to have bought this particular 100, it would have spontaneously combusted for insurance purposes.

I’ll grant that JCB are catching up on the quality front, but what’s sad is that until about thirty years ago they were already up there with the best in terms of build quality, if not innovation.

 

[V8Druid]

My final thoughts on the JCB bashing....... I know of men much smarter than Me ( some on here)who are running successful outfits and choose JCB ... this constant bashing is pretty much an insult to their intelligence, im sure if they were that bad no no amount of desire to support british industry or brand loyalty would make them part with their money.

can't argue with the reasoning Kev .... but'd guarantee those men're damned selective about what they buy from the range and do some soul searching before committing

 

[GazCro]

It's a bit like the land rover following where there is an acceptance that over the years you'll have to throw a lot of parts at it to keep it going. But ask yourself this, when pricing you're next 3 tonner and narrowing it down to two you then buy on price. So you save 1k then over the next 5 years the cheaper machine needs 2k in parts thrown at whereas the dearer one only needs filters. Which is the more expensive machine?
From experience this is why i won't put my money into jcb.

 

[Furniss]

It's a bit like the land rover following where there is an acceptance that over the years you'll have to throw a lot of parts at it to keep it going. But ask yourself this, when pricing you're next 3 tonner and narrowing it down to two you then buy on price. So you save 1k then over the next 5 years the cheaper machine needs 2k in parts thrown at whereas the dearer one only needs filters. Which is the more expensive machine?
From experience this is why i won't put my money into jcb.

But it doesn't seem to be the reality.....
You said your 1.5t only ever needed a pipe and ignition switch and a few others have similar stories
I dont have issue with criticism and of course, feedback either positive or negative is vital but a lot of it seems to come from people limited experience, i wouldn't criticise Bobcat/Doosan for instance because I have no actual idea about the product other than what i hear.
I remember using an early 2000 3cx and being annoyed at JCB for thinking those spiteful chrome lever tops that had dropped off already were o.k in a 3CX
But having used Kubota for 5years now I think that the gap in reality isnt that large between those 2 brands.... certainly not as big as all the people giggling at the back of the class every time someone mentions a JCB problem would have us believe.
Anyhow im done on the subject and if I buy some yellow and not orange next time ill let you know how i get on

 

[GazCro]

But it doesn't seem to be the reality.....
You said your 1.5t only ever needed a pipe and ignition switch and a few others have similar stories.
I dont have issue with criticism and of course, feedback either positive or negative is vital but a lot of it seems to come from people limited experience, i wouldn't criticise Bobcat/Doosan for instance because I have no actual idea about the product other than what i hear.
I remember using an early 2000 3cx and being annoyed at JCB for thinking those spiteful chrome lever tops that had dropped off already were o.k in a 3CX
But having used Kubota for 5years now I think that the gap in reality isnt that large between those 2 brands.... certainly not as big as all the people giggling at the back of the class every time someone mentions a JCB problem would have us believe.
Anyhow im done on the subject and if I buy some yellow and not orange next time ill let you know how i get on

Mind i missed out the blade ram creep and dipper cavitation issues it had from day one which were never even looked at never mind fixed by jcb/dealer and just learned to live with them. That's the other side good look if you go yellow.

 

[Bri963]

I can speak with authority about pissing on an electric fence, despite only having Limited Experience. There’s a reason for both parts of that sentence. (In response to Furniss)

 

[Bri963]

If British brands responded to there own market and there traditional users they would have more of a chance. Accountants tend to attack sadly.

Landrover is a classic example.... The defender love it or hate it was a iconic utility vehicle and it's ability to be turned into various roles sold it.... Cherry Pickers, Fire Appliances, Tippers, Hiabs and myriads of other specialist applications other than van or pickup. I hate em..... But i've two in my yard to go back on the road as there will soon come a time we can't get anything else suitable.....

They stopped making them for obvious reasons, it was a design from the f****ng 60's and that's being generous, uncomfortable, outdated and questionably safe. But the Accountants have clearly looked and decided that commercial vehicles don't make money and so the Defender is now a Freelander with a different body. The opportunity was missed to create something simple, reliable, and adaptable. Yes it's not going to make a fortune quickly but it would continue to be out there......

JCB 3cx - People keep telling us Backhoe's died in the early 2000's but realistically when did anyone put any effort into innovation with them......

What innovation do you need? You can have quick hitches front or back, fit a tilt rotator, have machine guidance fitted, even a ram for your side shift. They even have heaters in the cab nowadays. For me when they stopped supplying the big spanner to unclamp the backhoe it was an innovation.

 

[GazCro]

What innovation do you need? You can have quick hitches front or back, fit a tilt rotator, have machine guidance fitted, even a ram for your side shift. They even have heaters in the cab nowadays. For me when they stopped supplying the big spanner to unclamp the backhoe it was an innovation.

To be fair with a backhoe there isn't innovation needed or possibly even to be had they've probably come as far as they can. But from experience reliability would be a good start. Sorry if this offends some but it's the truth.

 

[Antony Holmes]

Having tried to purchase a new JCB several times over the years but never been able to get a deal that worked out for me. I found the problems start with the dealers not interested In doing something different. most of the time just pushing boxes out the door. One comment from a rep back in the day was when thy were £2k too dear on a £25k deal was you will have a jcb anyway, not the attitude to have I don’t think

I would love to go yellow but a bit more understanding of what owner opps want and not just sell loads of plant to the big boys, low spec, under powered and poorly finished



As far as land rovers go my last one was 2008 defender now run a d-max but would have changed back in a heart beat but not to the new one I looks like an excellent car but that is what it is a fancy 4x4 car, and good luck to jlr going where the money is but why call it a defender it isn’t

For the guys waiting for a work horse 4x4 we will have to see what ineos come up with next year looking good up to now but lets see.

 

[GazCro]

Having tried to purchase a new JCB several times over the years but never been able to get a deal that worked out for me. I found the problems start with the dealers not interested In doing something different. most of the time just pushing boxes out the door. One comment from a rep back in the day was when thy were £2k too dear on a £25k deal was you will have a jcb anyway, not the attitude to have I don’t think

I would love to go yellow but a bit more understanding of what owner opps want and not just sell loads of plant to the big boys, low spec, under powered and poorly finished



As far as land rovers go my last one was 2008 defender now run a d-max but would have changed back in a heart beat but not to the new one I looks like an excellent car but that is what it is a fancy 4x4 car, and good luck to jlr going where the money is but why call it a defender it isn’t

For the guys waiting for a work horse 4x4 we will have to see what ineos come up with next year looking good up to now but lets see.

You think the new Defender is dear wait for ineos.