Tiltrotator Prices

[Dave177]

I know there are lots and lots of options but could anyone give me an idea of cost for a fitted tiltrotator setup for a 2017 JCB JS 130. We would be running grading and dugging buckets, demolition grab and tree shear. No real need for proportional controls, currently fitted with a single hammer line.
Thanks David

 

[CPS]

I know there are lots and lots of options but could anyone give me an idea of cost for a fitted tiltrotator setup for a 2017 JCB JS 130. We would be running grading and dugging buckets, demolition grab and tree shear. No real need for proportional controls, currently fitted with a single hammer line.
Thanks David

Hi Dave , where are you based?

 

[Dave177]

Hi, based about 20mins SW of Gatwick Airport

 

[CPS]

Hi, based about 20mins SW of Gatwick Airport

Ok, Tom @rototilt is your man he covers your area. You will hear lots of different prices for that size machine as there are alot of options. Best to decide on a spec to suit you and quote like for like

 

[Regy53]

Yep you have a few options and a few members are on here who can help @Engcon UK @RototiltUK for example.

Best to get the spec you want take advise of the dealers and end users and get it like for like as best you can

 

[Engcon UK]

I know there are lots and lots of options but could anyone give me an idea of cost for a fitted tiltrotator setup for a 2017 JCB JS 130. We would be running grading and dugging buckets, demolition grab and tree shear. No real need for proportional controls, currently fitted with a single hammer line.
Thanks David

As Ross says, you have two manufacturers on the forum - Rototilt and us, together with lots of users who can give you advice. My starting point would be to call both and go through what you want to do with your machine.

One question to start with: why 'no real need for proportional controls'? The point of having a tilty - particularly if you are grading - is to use the proportional setup to get the finish you need. On minidiggers you can get away with using the hammer pedal to feed in the flow because the proportional control is quite a chunk of the overall cost of the tilty and budgetary issues can come into play. @TiltyShaun is a good advocate of this setup. On a 13 tonner this is less of an issue and, IMHO, a potential false economy; as the residuals will be poor.

I appreciate that V8Druid runs this type of setup on his Hydrema, but it's the exception.

HTH

 

[JD450A]

I appreciate that V8Druid runs this type of setup on his Hydrema, but it's the exception.

What about the rail industry?

 

[Engcon UK]

What about the rail industry?

You're sooooo picky, Rory

Absolutely correct. The rail industry do use this system (generically known as SS5). But then again, they're generally carrying several circuits down the dipper and the reasons that this preference evolved was more to do with the ways that the machines were set up, rather than what we would recommend today.

IIRC, you've driven both proportional systems and Druid's machine. Would you like to offer an impartial operator view on the merits of each? (you too, Druid and TiltyShaun). As manufacturers, we try and provide the best solution, based on needs, budgets and so on. The general direction of travel is towards more sophistication, but there will always exceptions.

 

[doobin]

I'd hazard a guess that it's because the UK rail industry is still stuck in the dark ages, providing rubbish service at astronomical cost.

Do Scandinavian rail maintenance ducks use fully proportional controls?

 

[Komatsu]

I'd hazard a guess that it's because the UK rail industry is still stuck in the dark ages, providing rubbish service at astronomical cost.

Do Scandinavian rail maintenance ducks use fully proportional controls?

Yes they do Doob

 

[JD450A]

Would you like to offer an impartial operator view on the merits of each?

Not run SS5, but run similar with other attachments. My understanding is the railways use the system as a standard to alleviate different random patterns on machines as a method of safety as operators are often jumping machines every shift.... that's just what I have been told mind.

Beauty of Non Proportional button control is mostly cost. You still have proportional control via the foot pedal or machines slider (Depending on if the machine has a proportional two way feed). The valves on the unit control where you direct the machines flow and it's perfectly possible to operate a tilty via this system... I believe one major drawback is the lack of feeds for hydraulic attachments or a gripper, but IMHE it COULD be done with extra valves in the tilty and more buttons.

This system is also very very easy to plumb in to a simple bank of switches or a joystick, as it is reliant not on CANBUS or similar but is wholey a ON/OFF electrical system to a Solinoid in the Head.

SVAB is of course a much better system to build off of for future modifications, and opens possibilities for attachments other than tiltys I believe..... If you have the coin!

 

[TiltyShaun]

My pennies worth is for the cost of the set up on my older mini digger I am happy with control the foot pedal gives me. Would I know want to be without my tilt and rotate at the same time function.....NO!!! I have seen the machine that the host is currently selling and as much as I like the idea of upgrading.....my wallet could not suffer the pain!! I am firmly stuck in the sun 3 ton world for easy if moving machine myself. If I was to upgrade I would probably go 7 or 8 ton with gripper and all the bells and whistles. When you go ENGCON there is no way back!!

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Only forward, to Rototilt!....

 

[JD450A]

Now now, we are a equal opportunity's forum and must not forget the other competition like SPM

 

[Monkeybusiness]

I'm only kidding (and am definitely not anti any of the other brands). My digger has an SMP quickhitch, Rototilt tilty, Engcon grading bucket and Steelwrist pallet forks (amongst other attachments). All are excellent.

 

[V8Druid]

......
Beauty of Non Proportional button control is mostly cost. You still have proportional control via the foot pedal or machines slider (Depending on if the machine has a proportional two way feed). .......... I believe one major drawback is the lack of feeds for hydraulic attachments or a gripper, but IMHE it COULD be done with extra valves in the tilty and more buttons. .....

..... I am happy with control the foot pedal gives me. Would I now want to be without my tilt and rotate at the same time function.....NO!!! ...

Firstly... rory's comments ..
you don't need two way Prop for the button set up Rory ... single way prop is all I use.... the two way cetop3s in my VA-r do all the flow directing. ... the manifold is fed with prop. oil pressure and each solenoid, for each function, determines what happens when.

there is no lack of feed for attachments in mine ..
have a 4 way rotary coupling ... two galleries for my hitch and two galleries for my aux ports ... I have acquired a six way rotary, which could give me yet another pair of galleries, for either a second aux circuit or to double the flow to one pair of aux QCs. ... suitably plumbed/valved either/or could be achieved - I have another pair of spare buttons to run another cetop3 and it could be used as an individual circuit or in tandem, as the oil feed all comes from the same source ... a bit of trickery on the switching and could even make the one pair of buttons run both cetops, for tandem use ......
the lack of rotary and hence aux/QH couplings on the smaller units is purely down to their size prohibiting shoe horning a rotary into them - quarts and pint pots - nothing more

as for Shauns comments ... I am blessed with a full size pedal in the 'Drema, so very fine control of flow is very easy, giving me equally fine control of the VA-r, from creep to pretty rapid motions ... just select what motion you want tilt and/or rotate and/or aux
.... what the pedal doesn't give you is the ability to vary the speeds of each operation individually .... sadly, but you can't have it all without big bills to achieve it
... however sharing oil flow does vary the speeds / way things happen and with practice you'd be surprised at just what you can achieve .... you can engage a second or third, motion after the first has been engaged and similarly disengage it to vary your requirements.

I am so used to selecting by button and using my left hoof to power mine, that I no longer have to think about it ... the couple of occasions I have been let loose on a prop. roller system, I found it very difficult to adapt and kept forgetting to let the rollers return to centre for off .... give me a day on one though and crack it I'm sure

.... pedal and buttons though is simple, with very little to 'go down ', leaving you scratching your head.

IMHDO, for most people, it's more than adequate to get you twisting and tilting, for a LOT less than the 'all bells and whistles' system, which probably 90% of folks really do not need
..... seems to me folks get hung up on having it, 'cos that's what they've been told is what they need ... uh uh !!
........ no way could I justify (to me) the cost of making it all fully prop., thumb controlled ... it just did not add up and would've added circa £5k to my roughly 1800 quid build cost, for mine

 

[Komatsu]

.... pedal and buttons though is simple, with very little to 'go down ', leaving you scratching your head.

IMHDO, for most people, it's more than adequate to get you twisting and tilting, for a LOT less than the 'all bells and whistles' system, which probably 90% of folks really do not need
..... seems to me folks get hung up on having it, 'cos that's what they've been told is what they need ... uh uh !!
........ no way could I justify (to me) the cost of making it all fully prop., thumb controlled ... it just did not add up and would've added circa £5k to my roughly 1800 quid build cost, for mine

Gra, you do talk crap sometimes, it was more than “adequate” may be 20 years ago, but like the majority of stuff from then, stuff has moved on with the times, and been “adequate” just doesn’t cut it anymore. I haven’t heard of any rep tell people they need the bells and whistle set up, but I’ll think you’ll find, that with all the information out there on the internet and on social media, that when people phone one of the tilty manufacturers up, there telling them what they want.
The sad thing is, that your dumbing down of a unit like that really makes it unsellable when you want to move it on, with more and more people actually seeing that going for a prop system really is the way forward. Think I’m right I saying that Ollie Gunn is a perfect example of him wanting to go for the button set up but then actually after having a go, waited a bit longer and went prop??.....anything that makes your bucket twist and turn is of course going to be a revelation, but you need to look at the big picture, and the fact that none of the other manufacturers do it, speaks volumes.

There was the same debate with the “S-type” hitch and PUP system, “we don’t need it” etc,etc....people didn’t get it....can’t remmber the last time I saw a PUP hitch under a tilty go out now??...with one of the reasons been that...they struggled to move it on when they wanted to upgrade.

 

[CPS]

Gra, you do talk crap sometimes, it was more than “adequate” may be 20 years ago, but like the majority of stuff from then, stuff has moved on with the times, and been “adequate” just doesn’t cut it anymore. I haven’t heard of any rep tell people they need the bells and whistle set up, but I’ll think you’ll find, that with all the information out there on the internet and on social media, that when people phone one of the tilty manufacturers up, there telling them what they want.
The sad thing is, that your dumbing down of a unit like that really makes it unsellable when you want to move it on, with more and more people actually seeing that going for a prop system really is the way forward. Think I’m right I saying that Ollie Gunn is a perfect example of him wanting to go for the button set up but then actually after having a go, waited a bit longer and went prop??.....anything that makes your bucket twist and turn is of course going to be a revelation, but you need to look at the big picture, and the fact that none of the other manufacturers do it, speaks volumes.
There was the same debate with the “S-type” hitch and PUP system, “we don’t need it” etc,etc....people didn’t get it....can’t remmber the last time I saw a PUP hitch under a tilty go out now??...with one of the reasons been that...they struggled to move it on when they wanted to upgrade.

Got to agree. The push button systems are pretty much obsolete in Scandinavian countries.... there not even on Rototilts price lists.... and if you ask about them the answer is "why do you want that". Proportional systems have been about for about 12 years now and are proven.
Take any operator off a prop system and put them on a push button system and they'll be looking the prop system back by 10 o'clock tea.

 

[V8Druid]

totally with you guys on the PUP versus S type hitch argument

..... but you're telling me that if the world's supply of prop. solenoid valves dried up you would go without a tilty rather than use buttons and a mechanically operated prop. valve with your trotter ???

OK drastic scenario, but ......
... there's nothing that can't be done using the manual system that the electronic systems provide ... other than the variation of speed to individual services .... which is 'live-able with', for the facilities it provides, if you have to.

The electronic system provides 'conveniences' that the mech. system doesn't, but that is all.
Not everyone can afford or wants needs the 'conveniences', but can still have a perfectly serviceable, functional tilty ... might not be your choice of system, but it is a perfectly functional option

Robert @Engcon UK ..... as an exercise and I'd be grateful if you'd bear with me on it .... what would be the price for my 'Drema for -
(a) a bells and whistles set up to compare with current functionality ?
and
(b) a system that matches what I currently have -
i.e. pedal and buttons controlling tilt, rotate, Aux grab/clam/tree killer/etc. and a hydraulic QH

I'd be guessing well North of circa £5-8K

 

[Engcon UK]

Robert @Engcon UK ..... as an exercise and I'd be grateful if you'd bear with me on it .... what would be the price for my 'Drema for -
(a) a bells and whistles set up to compare with current functionality ?
and
(b) a system that matches what I currently have -
i.e. pedal and buttons controlling tilt, rotate, Aux grab/clam/tree killer/etc. and a hydraulic QH

I'd be guessing well North of circa £5-8K

As the old saying goes, "light the blue touch paper and retire"

Several things here: @Komatsu is correct in that @Gunners did consider both and went for the fully proportional system and I am emphatically of the view that this was the right decision. But I am equally clear that there are others - @TiltyShaun wouldn't have bought a tilty if we hadn't offered the simpler system, but now he's a convert may well change to a DC2 when needs and budget allow. For me it's all about choice. I know Aiden went public on the old forum about how Rototilt would never offer this and that's his/their choice. Our view is different but our starting point will always be to push the advanced setup because it is unquestionably the best option.

The second point is that a lot depends on existing machine setup. An older U25 (for example) will have a mechanically operated hammer circuit and to install a fully proportional system on this will first require conversion to a pilot operated valve. Around £750 installed (more if you ask the dealer to do it). The installation of the control system and joysticks takes a couple of days and the control system (proportional valves in the tilty, cabin module and tiltrotator module) is going to add around £2500 or more to the budget. (Add the engineer's time in here).

So yes - a proportional system will add several thousand to the cost of the setup and I, Ollie(s) and others will argue all day long that its the way to go, but commercial realism also has it's place. An owner op with a 10YO U25 looking at getting into tiltydom may, and often does, have a different viewpoint.

So @Dave177 , what do you think of it so far?