Tiltrotator Prices

[TiltyShaun]

Agree fully with what @V8Druid and @Engcon UK have said.
I certainly could not have justified or afforded a system that would have ended up costing as much as my digger!! I work Flexi/part time so even what I did spend was ouch!! But it has improved my ability to tackle jobs that would otherwise have taken longer or been harder!! The ENGCON has been disconnected today as I needed to put the post hole knocker on and I really must get the diverter that @V8Druid keeps telling me about!!!

 

[Engcon UK]

Got to agree. The push button systems are pretty much obsolete in Scandinavian countries.... there not even on Rototilts price lists.... and if you ask about them the answer is "why do you want that". Proportional systems have been about for about 12 years now and are proven.
Take any operator off a prop system and put them on a push button system and they'll be looking the prop system back by 10 o'clock tea.

SHOCK HORROR!!!! Aiden and I agree
......on about 90% of this

Yes - we will always push the fully proportional system as the best and first option and, absolutely, once you have had a fully prop system you won't go back. The push button systems are no longer promoted (nor indeed available) in many cases.

We're disagreeing around the margins. Our philosophy is that, if you have a product that - with informed consent - the customer wants, is safe and fits both their budget and operating needs, then I am not going to adopt some moral high ground and refuse to sell it. No - the residuals won't be as good (but you can still trade it in at some point in the future for a higher spec one), but you will have entered the gates of Tiltydom. For the same reason I wouldn't look down my nose at someone with a tilting bucket. That person understands the benefit of being able to pull a batter from somewhere other than a vertical position and will, at some stage, convert to The True Path.

 

[doobin]

For the same reason I wouldn't look down my nose at someone with a tilting bucket. That person understands the benefit of being able to pull a batter from somewhere other than a vertical position and will, at some stage, convert to The True Path.

Not on a 1.7t I wouldn't. But I bloody love my tilt hitch. Used it today for just five minutes, but it saved making so much mess otherwise. Glad its on a proportional rocker though, would never go back to a pedal.

If I was running a tiltrotator on a 2.7t machine, I'd spec the machine from the factory with double proportional rocker auxillaries. Not expensive, and I can't see that you'd be running much else under a 2.7t that would require full setup?

 

[Quattromike]

OK it's obvious there is still animosity between those that have it all and those who have what it takes to get by but nobody is willing to stick their head above the parapet and give the guy an idea of what it may cost. I understand the manufacturers not wanting to publish publicly the embarrassing figures they manage to get their customers to pay for the all bells and whistles setups they have mastered.
I've never bought a tilty of any kind but always keep an eye out on what's going about.
I'm calling it and saying you'd have to budget £25k for a setup on that size of machine. But I'm always ready to hear other people's experience.

 

[Gunners]

I did go proportional after being a big advocate of the button and pedal system having tried it on the Engcon dig day. And on a mini digger, its a huge expense as a percentage of machine cost to go proportional. However several things pushed me proportional.
1. Its amazing to drive, feels so natural and 150hrs in now - I'm finally getting the hang of being able to do all functions at once.
2. Finance - without the finance I could never have justified the cost in one lump. The finance deal made it much more affordable
3. I gained a hydraulic hitch - and who doesn't want one of those
4. The grab. My grab is a key part to my plan of being a one man army, so far its won me more than a months work after initially being on hire for a week. On price work its my 2nd man, I can lay kerbs with it, move anything and it only takes 30 secs to connect/disconnect (who needs EC oil) Without the control system, I couldn't run the grab.

On a mini digger, without the ability to run a gripper (due to weight concerns) and several of the attachments the larger machines can run, the control system does seem a bit of a waste. This is where the market for the basic system is still relevant in my opinion. On a larger machine however - it opens up so many more options and I cant imagine anyone having done their research, wanting to stick to the basic system.
Tiltrotators work best with attachments, and the control system opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

As for the age old debate on price - yes they are expensive, but if you can change your mindset as to how it will save you money rather than cost, it takes a matter of months to pay itself off. If it can save you one mans wage its paid within a year even on the largest of machines.

To the OP's original question - go try some setups. Owners are usually more than happy to let you try out their setups and there's quite a few out there dotted around. People have phoned me for a chat about my experience so give some guys with similar sized machines a call. It wont do any harm to see what people think of their investments.

 

[JD450A]

4. The grab. My grab is a key part to my plan of being a one man army, so far its won me more than a months work after initially being on hire for a week. On price work its my 2nd man, I can lay kerbs with it, move anything and it only takes 30 secs to connect/disconnect (who needs EC oil) Without the control system, I couldn't run the grab.

Did a grand job of the shuttering too

 

[V8Druid]

......Without the control system, I couldn't run the grab. .........

why? I run a grab and clam shell under my buttons and pedal

OK it's obvious there is still animosity between those that have it all and those who have what it takes to get by .........I'm calling it and saying you'd have to budget £25k for a setup on that size of machine. But I'm always ready to hear other people's experience.

try £30k Mike .... got a mate who spent £32+K with a couple of buckets on a 14 LCR Doosan .... loves it, but close to a third of the cost of the machine
what I really wanted to know was the differential between bells and whistles and 'simples' .... there is a LOT of tech involved in the former - expensive tech
.... prop solenoid cetops are well over 12 times the price of on/off versions ... and you then need all the driver systems, etc.
.... I'd hazard a guess at it being a difference of approaching half the cost of the set up ..... if not a greater differential
the mechanical bit - the tilty is the same virtually .. just has different cetops controlling it
.... it's quite probably/possibly easy enough to swap the cetops from on/off to prop. and vice versa

as for the animosity tha's Ollie taking the piss out of me with " Gra, you do talk crap sometimes, " we're all entitled to our opinions .... and to disagree about them .... we've had a few differences of opinion, since we've known each other ... but we're still talking

 

[CPS]

why? I run a grab and clam shell under my buttons and pedal


try £30k Mike .... got a mate who spent £32+K with a couple of buckets on a 14 LCR Doosan .... loves it, but close to a third of the cost of the machine
what I really wanted to know was the differential between bells and whistles and 'simples' .... there is a LOT of tech involved in

About £4k difference in a 4 hose system and fully proportional .

As for the prices. £25k will get you alot of tilty and some attachments. About £18k will get you a fully proportional system on a 13ton machine. That will be a fairly basic setup... direct mount etc.
£32k..... must have ticked alot of boxes

 

[V8Druid]

About £4k difference in a 4 hose system and fully proportional .

As for the prices. £25k will get you alot of tilty and some attachments. About £18k will get you a fully proportional system on a 13ton machine. That will be a fairly basic setup... direct mount etc.
£32k..... must have ticked alot of boxes

..... for a 15 tonner Aiden ?? .... £4 k, for the prop. Cetops in the tilty, all the Prop. control system and stick tops ... right ... pack me a set up ... i'm going prop.

and yeh he ticked a lot of boxes

 

[fred]

As an engcon owner, I'll chip in. The kit is expensive, especially on the 3 tonners, almost half the price of the machine. I look at it very similar to Gunners, its an ongoing efficiency multiplier, saves donkeywork day in day out. On larger machines 7t+ you can do away with a telehandler as well as it enables a digger to be a proper materials handler, safer than a telehandler as well.

It can also be moved on to another machine when the time comes.

If I was looking at getting it then for the extra I would definitely go full proportional from the get go, so much better in every respect.

 

[Dave177]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
My reason for (possibly) not requiring the fully proportional system if from running an 8tonner with a tilt bucket and demo grab and only operating it off the pedal and push buttons.
However if the cost as a percentage is as low as aiden is suggesting I would be very interested.
Ill hopefully have a day in the office next week to call around and get some prices and make a plan from there

 

[fred]

Thanks for the replies everyone.
My reason for (possibly) not requiring the fully proportional system if from running an 8tonner with a tilt bucket and demo grab and only operating it off the pedal and push buttons.
However if the cost as a percentage is as low as aiden is suggesting I would be very interested.
Ill hopefully have a day in the office next week to call around and get some prices and make a plan from there

on an 8 tonner you would be able to use pallet forks no problem which you do really need rockers and prop.

 

[fred]

used engcon one

https://used.engcon.com/product/view/463

 

[Engcon UK]

If I was running a tiltrotator on a 2.7t machine, I'd spec the machine from the factory with double proportional rocker auxillaries. Not expensive, and I can't see that you'd be running much else under a 2.7t that would require full setup?

Just to clarify a possible misconception.

A lot of minidiggers come with this option (Hi-spec on Kubs is an example). If you have this - and a hitch circuit - you can get away with no control system at all. There are no valves in the top of the tilty and the digger's systems control the tilt, rotate and hitch. We pioneered this approach at Plantworx 2 years ago with a Wacker Neuson. It's an inexpensive system and for many it will do most of what is needed. We've also sold this on larger 9 tonne diggers to guys who run lots of fully proportional setups. BUT it has its drawbacks: It doesn't have a swivel nor any auxiliary circuits under the tilty (so you can't run a grab) and the residuals won't be anywhere as good as a full setup.

This is where the halfway house (SS9) comes in. The digger's prop systems are still doing the legwork, but the tilt function is switchable so that you can run a grab, operate the lower hitch and so on - but not at the same time as the tilt. Eddie was an advocate of this as the starting point, as - I believe - is Ollie @Komatsu . These days, excavator manufacturers are beginning to understand why they should offer these options, so it's becoming more affordable. FWIW, the systems are still nowhere near as good as the tilty manufacturer's proportional controls - we've been doing it a lot longer, our valve tech is better (read more expensive @V8Druid ) and our digital controls can vary the up and down ramp, starting and top speed and so on with more precision than a digger OEM would consider necessary. Not just Engcon, but Steelwrist and Rototilt as well. This is what you are paying for and, like anything in life, you get what you pay for.

I'll take slight issue with @Quattromike on not sticking my head above the parapet. The original question (what is @Dave177 view BTW) was a very general enquiry of the sort we get regularly, but which prompts a whole host of questions from us, some of which have been aired on this thread. Some time ago on the old forum, @V8Druid asked me directly what a basic tilty would cost and I answered him directly. Aiden @CPS has done so here, but he and I will tell you that it seldom stops there. All responsible tilty manufacturers will dig a lot deeper and as Ollie @Gunners has very eloquently explained, the process of selection is rarely quick and often involves a lot of to-ing and fro-ing between prospective owner, tilty manufacturer, dealer, wallet and, not least spouse or partner.

 

[Engcon UK]

As an engcon owner, I'll chip in. The kit is expensive, especially on the 3 tonners, almost half the price of the machine.

This is the Scandi philosophy. Whatever your budget is, half it and spend that on the host digger. The rest goes on attachments and makes you more efficient and self contained - exactly what @Gunners was propounding.

 

[Komatsu]

try £30k Mike .... got a mate who spent £32+K with a couple of buckets on a 14 LCR Doosan .... loves it, but close to a third of the cost of the machine

Well with not wanting to split hairs so to speak, Gra, if we said £27 and a half k, between mikes £25k, and your £30k Gra, over 5 years, like a lot of these units are financed over, your looking at about £23 pound a day to get you into a unit PLUS at the end of it you still have extremely good value left in the unit as they hold there price very well.

 

[Komatsu]

OK it's obvious there is still animosity between those that have it all and those who have what it takes to get by

I wouldn’t say animosity Mike, just more frustration than anything else. I totally understand why this unit has been provided, however, if the cost of fitting the joystick and buttons had been put towards the fitting of an aux line on the machine, 1, it will of increase the value of the machine and 2, their would be a 4 piped unit that could get off loaded anywhere in the UK or abroad and fetch good money as against a unit that would be harder to pass on.

As I’ve said before, no one else is doing them, and it’s one thing giving the customer what he wants, but there is also the responsibility to give advice out and steer them in the right direction.

When I was first looking into a unit, many years ago, I was after, (looking back) a ridiculous set up, but I was convinced that is what would would for me....But Pat (Bulcock) advised me, and righty so, that, looking at the big picture, that I’d be foolish to go down that route and that it would come back to haunt me when I came to pass the unit on.

As someone one has already said on here, get hold of some of the end users and speak to them, there’s plenty who are on the social media outlets, and I’ve yet to meet an end user who isn’t willing to share there experience with someone else.

 

[Grahams]

If the finances stack up you can't go wrong with an all singing and dancing system, but if the don't you can still get most of the benefits with a lower grade system even though it will be clunkier and occationally frustrating to operate. Just make sure if you are using powered attachments under the head there is enough oil going through that you can run all you need. Attaching the pipes further up the dipper is a pain as you don't have full rotation.
Graham

 

[Komatsu]

If the finances stack up you can't go wrong with an all singing and dancing system, but if the don't you can still get most of the benefits with a lower grade system

You can still finance a entry level unit Graham? I can’t speak for the others, but engcon do do some very attractive packages for end users, no matter what your after, whether it be a unit or buckets and hitch combinations.

 

[V8Druid]

used engcon one

https://used.engcon.com/product/view/463

that is a LOT of bucks, for a s/hand unit for a 2.5 to 4t machine ... .... £14K FFS ..... what was it new @fred ??