the Global Warming fiasco -- or how to tax the **** out of us

[Vinpetrol]

View attachment 69744
I suppose if you're in construction you might get excited by this, I can understand that, but I don't. I see further than that, I look at the scenery in the background, the tons of peat dug out, habitat lost, the vast amount of material used to mount something which will be de-commissioned in a few years time.

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I generally stay well away from this thread. A lot of it is politics and that is a subject banned from many social groups, the reason being that people tend to get very heated and fall out. I don't know how many of you have seen fists flying from actual politicians, but i've seen a few over the years on TV. One such bloke jailed this week for it.
This whole thread to me is a lot of very miserable hot air, it's just unpleasant, uneducated, biased nonsense which I don't want to be part of.
Nobody ever does anything, they just moan.
and moan
and moan some more.
It's very depressing and pointless.
I wouldn't claim to know much about it, I just know that it's a massive topic and there is a lot more to it than meets the eye when you dig deep into it.

Personally I like to do something which has a point to it, but that's me, i'm a bit weird that way.

I did however feel that it was the place where people would be against these on land windfarms, that it would be a good place to bolster some support. Maybe some pertinent questions would be asked.
Perhaps someone would say that they were actually in favour of them and then tell us why.
No, sadly all it attracted was more negativity and moaning.
That doesn't ever get anything done, nor are they positive traits which anyone would want anything to do with.
So here you have a chance to stop complaining for 3 minutes and do something which could make a difference, yet all we get is excuses. That brings up feelings of sadness, resentment and anger for me.
I see my role in this campaign as spreading the word, that's all. I don't have the patience to persistently counter the usual incorrect reasoning and assumptions people make based on what they read on FB. I know a lot about it, far from everything though, there has been a lot to learn over the past year or so.
Some ignorant, selfish, local FB oaf recently claimed he wasn't going to oppose it because it wasn't in his front garden. It didn't matter that somethings taller than Blackpool tower were going to wreck the countryside near where he lived (and more). As long as he couldn't see it from his window it was ok, that was his reasoning.



Yes that's because I try hard to do that. I don't sit here and moan about everything and I have a lot I could moan about.
Would you say that to the posters on this thread?
You've never said that to me, so how would I know. I have no idea.
I do have much more to write in the same vain, we're months even years behind what has been going on here recently.
Maybe instead of almost inspire I could actually inspire

I get where you’re coming from . Your points are pertinent and well recieved on here . I wouldn’t shy away from the political debate though but we are a fairly close bunch so agreeing to disagree is maybe a better tactic than being insulting . Bear in mind though we are a plant forum .most of us make our living breaking ground in some way or another and sometimes that might mean working for the man who’s building a power station on Hampstead heath. I like this forum because of that . It’s what I do for a living but I do listen to all the views even the ones I don’t agree with and just by you being here and saying what you think may change opinions that you don’t even realise .

 

[Gecko]

FFS give it a rest.
Moaning about people moaning is more than a little retarded.
The title of this thread includes the work TAX, so of course politics comes into it.

Some ignorant, selfish, local FB oaf recently claimed he wasn't going to oppose it because it wasn't in his front garden.

Do you realise this is exactly YOU. You are the oaf with no interest in other peoples problems.
You have never asked for signatures for wind farms in other places, supermarket developments, housing estates - nothing. Only this development because it is (virtually) in your front garden.

Ask for support - of course, but moaning and moaning and moaning when you don't get what you want is very self destructive - next time you ask for a favour, you may not find as much support.

One of the great features of most forum platforms is the "Ignore" feature.

Goodbye

 

[LKSF]

I get where you’re coming from . Your points are pertinent and well recieved on here . I wouldn’t shy away from the political debate though but we are a fairly close bunch so agreeing to disagree is maybe a better tactic than being insulting . Bear in mind though we are a plant forum .most of us make our living breaking ground in some way or another and sometimes that might mean working for the man who’s building a power station on Hampstead heath. I like this forum because of that . It’s what I do for a living but I do listen to all the views even the ones I don’t agree with and just by you being here and saying what you think may change opinions that you don’t even realise .

Yes some good points well made. What you've said goes against the ideals of this thread too, it's more like 'Hang on a minute, we could make shitloads of money here'.
That's what people don't realise, these things keep people employed, create jobs, help the economy, the countries wealth etc.

Our campaign is not against renewable energy per se, it's just needs to be done in the right way and in the correct place.

 

[JD450A]

Fight fight fight

 

[Vinpetrol]

Yes some good points well made. What you've said goes against the ideals of this thread too, it's more like 'Hang on a minute, we could make shitloads of money here'.
That's what people don't realise, these things keep people employed, create jobs, help the economy, the countries wealth etc.

Our campaign is not against renewable energy per se, it's just needs to be done in the right way and in the correct place.

We all chase the dirty leucker when the chips are down . I like to think I’m not morally bankrupt yet but when work gets a bit quiet my moral code can be stretched to doing stuff that isn’t the best for the planet . I won’t hang anyone else for doing the same thing . That doesn’t stop me admiring the people who stick to their principles despite where they find themselves .
Good luck with the campaign , renewables is the way we are going like it or not . Not everyone will be happy about where the kit goes and some will win battles and some won’t but it will all be renewables in the end .

 

[JD450A]

I'm going to have to bite.....

Anyone that opposes construction of renewables provided the footprint post construction returns mostly to nature is a NIMBY by nature.... You cannot support offshore wind whilst being disgusted by onshore for Ecological reasons for instance.

Solar and Biomass are two clear cut exemptions to the rule.... Both are hugely economically damaging if you actually pay attention and don't rely solely on interested parties giving you there "findings". The land used for both changes it's ecology and use rather rapidly.

Wind sites do recover..... And whilst they use a large amount of carbon in there creation concrete (like cows) is another product that actually is no where near as damaging over it's total lifespan as we are lead to believe.

Access roads made with oversized fill below are incredible Hibernicas for reptiles and amphibians.

And at the end of a wind turbines life.... The base is still good for another..... Or it can be removed with very little long term waste.... Unlike nuclear.

Speaking of nuclear the NORMS created from refining materials for solar and batteries is horrendous.

 

[LKSF]

I'm going to have to bite.....

Anyone that opposes construction of renewables provided the footprint post construction returns mostly to nature is a NIMBY by nature.... You cannot support offshore wind whilst being disgusted by onshore for Ecological reasons for instance.

Solar and Biomass are two clear cut exemptions to the rule.... Both are hugely economically damaging if you actually pay attention and don't rely solely on interested parties giving you there "findings". The land used for both changes it's ecology and use rather rapidly.

Wind sites do recover..... And whilst they use a large amount of carbon in there creation concrete (like cows) is another product that actually is no where near as damaging over it's total lifespan as we are lead to believe.

Access roads made with oversized fill below are incredible Hibernicas for reptiles and amphibians.

And at the end of a wind turbines life.... The base is still good for another..... Or it can be removed with very little long term waste.... Unlike nuclear.

Speaking of nuclear the NORMS created from refining materials for solar and batteries is horrendous.

Peat moors don't recover, once you've dug it up it releases all the carbon stored and peat takes hundreds of years to form. Peat holds more carbon than the rainforests.
The bases could support more turbines in the future, but in 20yrs time it's highly unlikely. By then we'll have moved on and wind power will be a thing of the past.
They don't dig them up, there is no budget set aside for this.
All the surrounding towns and villages to these moors suffer from severe flooding, this is caused by the change in climate coupled with the fact that the moors have been drained in the past. The peat and vegetation dried out, it now no longer acts like the sponge it used to so the water runs straight off.

Water and sewerage bills are going up and up for various reasons. One of the hidden costs is that it takes between £104k to 208k per year, per reservoir to clean the peat out of the water because they now no longer work to filter the rain.

Neither of these problems directly effect me.
I hope you've got a lot of time to waste arguing this pointless debate because you're going to need it over the next few months and i've only countered one of your points so far, I could go on.
and on
and on.
Remember V8 Druid is retired, he's got time to waste chuntering on, neither of us have really. I'd rather be out there making an actual difference.

 

[LKSF]

This is how renewables do help us, a British company has just sold Japan it's second underwater turbine:

1.1 MW tidal turbine hits the water in Japan's Naru Strait (Gallery)

Proteus Marine Renewables (PMR) has installed Japan’s first megawatt-scale tidal turbine, in the Naru Strait.

www.offshore-energy.biz

 

[Smiffy]

At the end of the day we aren't going to save the planet. The planet was perfectly fine before us and will be perfectly fine after us. We are trying to save the human race. And I would heavily question saving us. We are the most atrocious sadistic species to ever roam the earth. We are hell bent on causing one and other to suffer for own gain, and this is at the lighter end of the spectrum. The other end is all out destruction. Couple this with the fact that I highly doubt Putin is worried about emission controls of a t90 tank or carbon offsetting a ballistic missile. It makes the whole thing very futile.
However what we do need short term is jobs, energy and to keep the economy from grinding to a standstill. We don't have much industry in this country as we have spent so long trying to better ourselves to the point very few want to to work in primary or secondary industries. So that kind of leaves building wind turbines on peat moors a relatively more important prospect than it seems on the surface.
Unfortunately however much people don't like it, it is a necessary evil of progress.

 

[LKSF]

At the end of the day we aren't going to save the planet. The planet was perfectly fine before us and will be perfectly fine after us. We are trying to save the human race. And I would heavily question saving us. We are the most atrocious sadistic species to ever roam the earth. We are hell bent on causing one and other to suffer for own gain, and this is at the lighter end of the spectrum. The other end is all out destruction. Couple this with the fact that I highly doubt Putin is worried about emission controls of a t90 tank or carbon offsetting a ballistic missile. It makes the whole thing very futile.
However what we do need short term is jobs, energy and to keep the economy from grinding to a standstill. We don't have much industry in this country as we have spent so long trying to better ourselves to the point very few want to to work in primary or secondary industries. So that kind of leaves building wind turbines on peat moors a relatively more important prospect than it seems on the surface.
Unfortunately however much people don't like it, it is a necessary evil of progress.

I don't disagree, but do you know who is providing the funding to start this one off? The Saudis.

 

[Smiffy]

I don't disagree, but do you know who is providing the funding to start this one off? The Saudis.

Where the money comes from is far to much of a geopolitical conundrum to worry anyone on here. There is, as ever, far more to these things than will ever be known in the public domain.

 

[Vinpetrol]

Peat moors don't recover, once you've dug it up it releases all the carbon stored and peat takes hundreds of years to form. Peat holds more carbon than the rainforests.
The bases could support more turbines in the future, but in 20yrs time it's highly unlikely. By then we'll have moved on and wind power will be a thing of the past.
They don't dig them up, there is no budget set aside for this.
All the surrounding towns and villages to these moors suffer from severe flooding, this is caused by the change in climate coupled with the fact that the moors have been drained in the past. The peat and vegetation dried out, it now no longer acts like the sponge it used to so the water runs straight off.

Water and sewerage bills are going up and up for various reasons. One of the hidden costs is that it takes between £104k to 208k per year, per reservoir to clean the peat out of the water because they now no longer work to filter the rain.

Neither of these problems directly effect me.
I hope you've got a lot of time to waste arguing this pointless debate because you're going to need it over the next few months and i've only countered one of your points so far, I could go on.
and on
and on.
Remember V8 Druid is retired, he's got time to waste chuntering on, neither of us have really. I'd rather be out there making an actual difference.

Just for the record , the Druids” chuntering “has been informative and brilliant on this forum . If you take the time to read the guys thread you’ll see he has managed to build a tiltrotator and various other excavator attachments from scratch and details them all with pictures . It’s what the forum is about . That’s the tip off the iceberg of his input on here . The guy does more meaningful s**t in his retirement than many will manage while in their working years .

 

[LKSF]

Just for the record , the Druids” chuntering “has been informative and brilliant on this forum . If you take the time to read the guys thread you’ll see he has managed to build a tiltrotator and various other excavator attachments from scratch and details them all with pictures . It’s what the forum is about . That’s the tip off the iceberg of his input on here . The guy does more meaningful s**t in his retirement than many will manage while in their working years .

I know, I know

 

[V8Druid]

Just for the record , the Druids” chuntering “has been informative and brilliant on this forum . If you take the time to read the guys thread you’ll see he has managed to build a tiltrotator and various other excavator attachments from scratch and details them all with pictures . It’s what the forum is about . That’s the tip off the iceberg of his input on here . The guy does more meaningful s**t in his retirement than many will manage while in their working years .

huge thanks for those kind words Vin .... and glad to be able to make the input for others to hopefully enjoy

 

[6feetdown]

Like I said before the people on here would get s**t done without all the unnecessary bs

 

[JD450A]

Peat moors don't recover,

Actually, they can and do. Plenty of research on the matter, Ironically I'm studying it at MSc level atm and my test piece for entrance on it was on peatbog restoration..... Although I'm not going to argue with you because that blatant snippet highlights the extent of your knowledge. Going down in my estimations, pretty rapidly.

 

[LKSF]

Actually, they can and do. Plenty of research on the matter, Ironically I'm studying it at MSc level atm and my test piece for entrance on it was on peatbog restoration..... Although I'm not going to argue with you because that blatant snippet highlights the extent of your knowledge. Going down in my estimations, pretty rapidly.

They do if they're still there and re-hydrated, we're seeing a lot of restoration work in this area, but surely not if they've been dug out.

 

[JD450A]

They do if they're still there and re-hydrated, we're seeing a lot of restoration work in this area, but surely not if they've been dug out.

Peat bogs develop from pioneer species and a puddle. Stands to reason if they have done it once they can do it again.

Carbon loss from peatland develops due to loss of hydrology foremost. Provided sites are rewetted they do tend to recover. The reality is a few wind turbine sites won't come close to the damage the forestry commission achieved with drainage ploughs and conifer plantations in all reality.

We have some of the most stringent environmental assessments in the developed world in all reality.... Unfortunately I've had to listen about all sorts of EIA's in recent months along with how a wind farm in Wales turns it's bat mincing turbines off automatically in certain weather conditions to protect the bats and uses survey detection dogs to count how few bat and bird carcasses there are scattered on the ground.

I agree we shouldn't recklessly destroy nature, I'd not be studying what I'm studying if I did. But It amazes me how people are blind to the reality that all these habits evolve regardless and succeed. Mires and Bogs are a rare habitat as they naturally succeed themselves and dry themselves out in reality.

 

[LKSF]

Peat bogs develop from pioneer species and a puddle. Stands to reason if they have done it once they can do it again.

Carbon loss from peatland develops due to loss of hydrology foremost. Provided sites are rewetted they do tend to recover. The reality is a few wind turbine sites won't come close to the damage the forestry commission achieved with drainage ploughs and conifer plantations in all reality.

We have some of the most stringent environmental assessments in the developed world in all reality.... Unfortunately I've had to listen about all sorts of EIA's in recent months along with how a wind farm in Wales turns it's bat mincing turbines off automatically in certain weather conditions to protect the bats and uses survey detection dogs to count how few bat and bird carcasses there are scattered on the ground.

I agree we shouldn't recklessly destroy nature, I'd not be studying what I'm studying if I did. But It amazes me how people are blind to the reality that all these habits evolve regardless and succeed. Mires and Bogs are a rare habitat as they naturally succeed themselves and dry themselves out in reality.

Peat forms at about 1mm per year, so it's going to take a long time for those metres to be rebuilt at 1000 yrs per metre. Regardless of which when it's disturbed in the first place the carbon stored has gone.
It doesn't regen on it's own, it needs human intervention. There is some ruined near me, there was a moor fire years ago and it's never recovered, it's just being eroded and washed away.
It's not so much bird strikes, but the fact that they just stay away from the area.

 

[V8Druid]

......... the fact that the moors have been drained in the past. The peat and vegetation dried out, it now no longer acts like the sponge it used to so the water runs straight off.

so these peat bogs are already knackered anyway ????