Surrounded by fire!

[fred]

maybe their is climate change.

The question being does humanity have an impact on it or not. I'm not sold it actually does.

Either way until china reverses what its doing, which its not, then its worse than pointless the west nailing itself to the cross.

A lot of 'green' stuff is common sense and we do it already, plastic in the oceans etc most of which again comes from china/india/s**t hole countries.

A lot of the scientists who are ridiculed by the climate movement are saying its more to do with the Sun activity rather than anything we on earth can do.

As for Oz, it is easy to be wise after the event, but when this terrible episode is over I hope you have a massive inquiry as to what went wrong and what is going to be done to stop it happening again. I wouldn't bank on requesting China stop using some of their coal fired power stations (Beijing alone has 4) to help the planet is going to work.

Massive desalination plants around the coasts to make the interior of Oz an oasis, probably dont have the tech to do it yet but something needs to be done.

I just wish we could send you some of the f****ng water we have had here in monther England the last six months.

 

[V8Druid]

The doubts about climate change in this country are rapidly changing as the country burns to a crisp. ...
Whereas if over 95% of climate related scientists, agricultural scientists and everyone else who is credibly qualified to have knowledge on this matter says that not only is climate change happening but situations like we are facing in Australia are evidence, why would you argue with them???

Nobodies denying climate change. Just specifically that humans are causing climate change. ...........things are being dumbed down to comply, diesels will soon be banned I think aussies have one of highest per person co2 rates?

I don't think the 95% are saying it is us causing it though Dave ..... in fact many who did originally, have now reversed their opinions .... most of those who do have a vested interest .... usually salary related ....... are in the minority within their peer groups.......as said it's mostly seen/ driven by and used as yet another excuse to tax the crap out of the population.
There is NO DOUBT whatsoever that our planet and its systems are changing/evolving .... into a new phase of weather patterns ......... we may even be heading for an extinction level event of some kind ..... no government is ever going to admit to knowledge of any such thing .... the world would come to a blinding, grinding halt and total anarchy would ensue ...... so much goes on that few ever know about, or ever will ..... the obvious signs of change have to be blamed on something though, by those who try to keep 'civilisation' on an even keel

 

[Gecko]

Either way until china reverses what its doing,

last I heard, China was opening one coal fired power station per week.

plastic in the oceans etc most of which again comes from china/india/s**t hole countries.

hey, I live in one of those shitholes!

I just wish we could send you some of the f****ng water

Now that, we could use.

 

[AusDave]

I don't think the 95% are saying it is us causing it though Dave ..... in fact many who did originally, have now reversed their opinions .... most of those who do have a vested interest .... usually salary related ....... are in the minority within their peer groups.......as said it's mostly seen/ driven by and used as yet another excuse to tax the crap out of the population.
There is NO DOUBT whatsoever that our planet and its systems are changing/evolving .... into a new phase of weather patterns ......... we may even be heading for an extinction level event of some kind ..... no government is ever going to admit to knowledge of any such thing .... the world would come to a blinding, grinding halt and total anarchy would ensue ...... so much goes on that few ever know about, or ever will ..... the obvious signs of change have to be blamed on something though, by those who try to keep 'civilisation' on an even keel

Sorry Druid, I'll have to call you out on your comments, I think you've been reading too much fake news.
Firstly, depending on exactly how you measure the expert consensus, it’s somewhere between 90% and 100% that agree humans are responsible for climate change, with most studies finding 97% consensus among publishing climate scientists. These are scientists who have credibility with regard to climate science and publish their findings to be critiqued by other scientists.

With regard to the scientists "doing it for the money", I think you'll find their research, when you do some digging, is funded by fossil fuel interests who can pay a lot more for the results they want. So if you're a scientist wanting more cash you wouldn't be saying climate change is caused by humans. This is and always has been a facile argument trotted out by deniers because it appeals the the innately greedy nature of many people.

As for using it as an excuse to tax the crap out of the population, you obviously are unaware of the price of electricity and gas in Australia. These energy sources have become a massive tax on the Australian population because climate change deniers have wanted more coal fired power stations. (They often come from coal mining electorates and/or are easy meat for fossil fuel lobbyists.) Energy companies know that renewables, (solar, wind, batteries, hydro storage), are cheaper and coal powered assets are likely to become stranded white elephants. They want to build these renewable power sources but the current Government of climate change deniers won't give them the certainty to proceed to make these investments. So we have existing tired old coal power stations struggling to keep up with demand ratcheting up pricing, (high demand, low competition = high prices).

As for gas, what a farce. Business and consumers are paying some of the highest prices, (more taxes!), in the world for gas as Australia begins to edge out the Middle East as the worlds largest gas exporter. We are sending most of our gas overseas and there is bugger all left for Eastern Australia. So if you want gas you'll pay through the nose for it. We have new gas fuelled power stations that are too expensive to run or cannot get enough supply to run for very long. Just up the coast from me they are installing a new gas terminal so our state can import gas from other parts of the world cheaper than we can get our own gas Sounds crazy, but it's true. It's no wonder Australians, myself included have become one of the worlds largest installers of home solar on our roofs. At least we can control some of our energy costs. However in doing this it is upending the energy grid which was built for centralised energy production not decentralised energy production.

The extinction event is here Druid. Many of our unique species of plants and animals have had their habitats decimated in these fires. How much has been lost is not yet known. The fire areas are too dangerous to enter. The science is in, we've got to move on to renewable energy sources and protect the areas of the planet, our forests and oceans, which give us the clean air and oxygen we need to survive. Already the death toll from the horrible air quality, (worse than Beijing/Delhi), these fires have caused for many weeks is estimated to be in the hundreds of humans.

In the UK your shift from coal power to renewable energy such as wind power is to be applauded. The economic statistics I have seen from your large scale offshore wind farms show an incredible low electricity cost compared to what we are paying in Australia from our dirty unreliable coal power plants.

If you listen to engineers and scientists, we have the solutions to reducing CO2 production by changing our energy sources. There will be plenty of well paying jobs that come with these solutions as well not to mention a better planet. Trying to get our political classes to listen to those with the knowledge rather than cashed up vested interests in the existing fossil fuel sector is a challenge.

 

[V8Druid]

same demise to our coal industry here Dave .... cheaper to import Ozzie brown coal than dig our own better quality out.....so the gov. closed the industry virtually lock, stock and barrel ... with no consideration to the 'social' implications of their actions .... totally short sighted performance

 

[JD450A]

The UK's shift from Coal is a ecological disaster in the making but the media and greenies will tout it as a victory. We are importing huge amounts of biomass (wood pellets) from elsewhere in the world to burn.... likewise we don't have the capacity to burn all the "recycled, low grade" wood we produce in the UK as it is'nt clean burning enough so it gets exported by boat to northern europe.

The UK had some very viable deep mines that where literally right beside the power stations they fed.... whatever your views on CO2 that is far cleaner than cutting trees down in the US and shipping them to the UK to burn!

Trouble is Dave that your equally only getting half the picture in Auz from media reports over here

I don't quite buy the CO2 issue.... But we do need to sort out our emissions where they aren't required. The key thing globally, particularly in developed nations is the amount of waste, both in energy and actual products. Transport causes issues not only in terms of energy wastage but also pollution such as invasive species carried in the ballast tanks of ships..... We have a major waste issue not only in packaging but also disposable products themselves..... Even "Reusable" coffee cups have a realitively short lifespan.

Simple fact is there are too many people in the world and energy is too cheap! That's the unfortunate reality!


As for wind and solar..... I like both, but the shameless drive to it with large feed in tariffs and grants has lead to thousands of hectares of flat, productive grassland and meadow being decimated in the name of it....say what you want shading ground doesn't do it any good, nor does ploughing it up laying cables in the middle of winter to meet a deadline..... the ground is ruined and strangely it's the same meadows in some places that couldn't be built on because of there "Biodiversity".

Wind power is great, but unfortunately not constant! I love turbines however I'd say for every 10 working 11 are stopped.... rarely generating at full output.

We also now have HPC in construction... which is a dismal thing to even of considered building as a "green" solution....f****ng deadly waste we have no solution to!

 

[Komatsu]

Just putting it out there, but what ever happened to the Ozone layer that was disappearing about 20 years ago and was all over the news?

 

[Monkeybusiness]

We need to harness tidal power - there would be hugely unpopular localised ecosystem damage in the short term but it offers a guaranteed reliable clean immense power source pretty much ad infinitum.

 

[Jimbo69]

Just putting it out there, but what ever happened to the Ozone layer that was disappearing about 20 years ago and was all over the news?

AFAIK the reduction in use of CFC’s reduced the damage and the ozone layer started to heal/repair itself. I don’t know the science of it, just read something not long ago.

 

[Gecko]

Simple fact is there are too many people in the world

This.

AFAIK the reduction in use of CFC’s reduced the damage

To be pedantic, the use of CFC's was drastically reduced in the west.
In china and other 3rd world countries, it's consumption is increasing.

 

[JD450A]

We need to harness tidal power - there would be hugely unpopular localised ecosystem damage in the short term but it offers a guaranteed reliable clean immense power source pretty much ad infinitum.

I fully agree.

TBH the argument of local ecosystem damage does'nt stand up to scrutiny with me. We have utterly decimated places to do environmental works and within 6 months it's better than it was before!

 

[V8Druid]

The UK's shift from Coal is a ecological disaster in the making but the media and greenies will tout it as a victory. We are importing huge amounts of biomass (wood pellets) from elsewhere in the world to burn.... likewise we don't have the capacity to burn all the "recycled, low grade" wood we produce in the UK as it is'nt clean burning enough so it gets exported by boat to northern europe.

The UK had some very viable deep mines that where literally right beside the power stations they fed.... whatever your views on CO2 that is far cleaner than cutting trees down in the US and shipping them to the UK to burn!

Trouble is Dave that your equally only getting half the picture in Auz from media reports over here

I don't quite buy the CO2 issue.... But we do need to sort out our emissions where they aren't required. The key thing globally, particularly in developed nations is the amount of waste, both in energy and actual products. Transport causes issues not only in terms of energy wastage but also pollution such as invasive species carried in the ballast tanks of ships..... We have a major waste issue not only in packaging but also disposable products themselves..... Even "Reusable" coffee cups have a realitively short lifespan.

Simple fact is there are too many people in the world and energy is too cheap! That's the unfortunate reality!


As for wind and solar..... I like both, but the shameless drive to it with large feed in tariffs and grants has lead to thousands of hectares of flat, productive grassland and meadow being decimated in the name of it....say what you want shading ground doesn't do it any good, nor does ploughing it up laying cables in the middle of winter to meet a deadline..... the ground is ruined and strangely it's the same meadows in some places that couldn't be built on because of there "Biodiversity".

Wind power is great, but unfortunately not constant! I love turbines however I'd say for every 10 working 11 are stopped.... rarely generating at full output.

We also now have HPC in construction... which is a dismal thing to even of considered building as a "green" solution....f****ng deadly waste we have no solution to!

make some great points there Rory ... as I touched on last night with the mining industry .... the closure of Britain's coal industry took no account of the socio-economic implications, to say now't of all the other issues.
as for the waste issue .... FFS stop all the bloody plastic packaging, for a a start, which sadly has grown a n other whole industry around it.
the population issue is on a horrendous scale ....
watched Tom Hanks last night in summat called Inferno.... some scary figures banded about in some scenes ... I know it was just a fillum ... but the statistics were real enough

 

[Rob 210]

Just catching up on this one,and have yet another theory,but will never be accepted!
Late 1940's 1950's and mid 60's how many nukes where tested.And what is the core temprature of the explosion?
Now as far as I am aware the ionosphere is basically designed to bounce off heat,radiation from space keeping us all safe,and not for letting such heat(from nukes )and radiation out of the atmosphere.
Who's to say the governments of this world haven't burnt a F#=*ing great hole in the very thing that is supposed to protect us?
Just a theory!!

 

[Komatsu]

We need to harness tidal power - there would be hugely unpopular localised ecosystem damage in the short term but it offers a guaranteed reliable clean immense power source pretty much ad infinitum.

Why would there be ecosystem damage if there far out at sea?....and I’m sure I’ve seen a documentary about them using this somewhere....there was supposed to be a big one start down in South Wales, but it’s been knocked on the head.... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44589083

 

[Rob 210]

Off the Far east coast I think I'm correct in saying we have the country's biggest wind farm.They are now talking about another twice the size,and guess what,All of the Nimby's are up in arms about the destruction the cables will cause to the "Newly constructed sub station",A little further down we have Sizewell C and D They want to build
How many objectors has that got."all the extra traffic movements,extra trucks all of the disturbance.
FFS It's renewable energy.Pull your head out of your selfish arses,get over yourselves and put up with a little disruption for a while,It will not effect the price of your holiday home,which is used for 3_4 weeks of the year Depriving a local family from owning a house,just so you can go to Southwold and drink a pint of Adnams and have a weekend retreat in the country
They all want cheap power,24hrs a day.
You have a choice!!!

 

[V8Druid]

Why would there be ecosystem damage if there far out at sea?....and I’m sure I’ve seen a documentary about them using this somewhere....there was supposed to be a big one start down in South Wales, but it’s been knocked on the head.... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44589083

been on/off for years Ollie .... IIRC it damned near got started a while back ... it will also have huge wildlife benefits apparently ... think money is the greatest issue reading between the lines - both funding it and return

 

[V8Druid]

guy across the valley from me has been trying to get planning for a wind generator mast for years ... the railways put up a sodding great mast beside the line, below him, no prob.s ... he's all but given up ...... basically they do not want people 'off grid' as their 'hold' on them is diminished
all sorts of new regs coming in for private water supplies, private sewage, etc., etc. .... talking about taxing and licensing wood burners too

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Why would there be ecosystem damage if there far out at sea?....and I’m sure I’ve seen a documentary about them using this somewhere....there was supposed to be a big one start down in South Wales, but it’s been knocked on the head.... https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-south-west-wales-44589083

I think the easiest/most efficient way of making this sort of system work is to dam off an existing estuary or tidal race and force the incoming/outgoing flow through turbines.
Building stand-alone turbines in fast flowing tidal streams is another option but is more limited in terms of availability of viable locations.
Creating mechanisms for generating electricity far out at sea and subsequently getting that power back to where it is needed becomes very expensive and complicated quickly. Tidal range is much harder to capture in deep water, and racing tidal currents don’t really exist away from land. Various ideas for generating electricity from wave action have been trialled but all are complex and none can offer guaranteed performance (as they need waves in the same way that turbines need wind).
In the UK we have areas with some of the greatest tidal range in the world - capturing millions of tonnes of water that has been lifted 5m plus naturally, for free, and will be lifted again in 12.5 hours time just seems a massive no-brainer to me. Why we are twatting around shipping wood from the other side of the world to burn to meet some bullshit ‘green’ legislation is criminal IMO...

 

[Jimoz]

Think that South Wales thing is back in pipeline excuse the pun. Heard other week on wireless they're now exploring commercial funding rather than government money

 

[Gecko]

it’s somewhere between 90% and 100%.....

Did you know 86% of all quoted statistics are made up on the spot?