Sub 3t tiltys

[Brendan]

Looking to get a 2.5-2.8t machine and looking to future proof, incase of a tilty ever gracing the machine so beside getting s30 buckets want to look at lines. Most machines seem to be foot peddle for hammer circuit although a few have options for extra circuits and proportional on both levers, although no idea on cost differences as can barely get costs for new machines let alone extras. Had a price from jcb to have proportional on one side and control of high and low flow on the other with if I heard right boom swing but adds several thousand to cost and from what I've read so far more expensive than the cost of the dc2

Anyways back to the point does anyone care to list their machine, how many lines, tilty and control system and anything they wished they did different.

On another note if the digger has extra lines and twin proportional controls I assume it's cheaper to get the tilty fitted but misses on some fancy tricks of the full fat setup? Would this still be able to run a grab and use all functions or would it be case of switching between tilt or grab operation.

Appreciate this has been done to death, but after everything I've read or watched I'm still stuck at step one not having a clue

 

[doobin]

Bobcat will do you an extra line for £500 from the factory, both mine have them (rotator grab). With the tilt, yeah you’d need an extra diverter to use the grab. Basically if you buy the basic four pipe tilty yeah it’s cheaper but you have to control everything from outside it.

 

[V8Druid]

where's me tin hat ..... if you have one prop line, could always go buttons to split your controls and have it all

 

[Brendan]

Bobcat will do you an extra line for £500 from the factory, both mine have them (rotator grab). With the tilt, yeah you’d need an extra diverter to use the grab. Basically if you buy the basic four pipe tilty yeah it’s cheaper but you have to control everything from outside it.

Lost interest once bobcat gave a price of 29k, although to be honest would rather defecate on my hands and clap than hand more money to bobcat/doosan.
Might be cutting my nose off to spite my face but have no faith in their kit

So with a grab on machines own proportional controls how would you operate the grab

 

[Shovelhands]

Lost interest once bobcat gave a price of 29k, although to be honest would rather defecate on my hands and clap than hand more money to bobcat/doosan.
Might be cutting my nose off to spite my face but have no faith in their kit

So with a grab on machines own proportional controls how would you operate the grab

Button on one joystick, either momentary or latching (your choice) and then use the roller that would be tilt to operate the grab. The valve would be in/on the tilty. Its just a changeover valve between tilt and aux/grab. You just can’t tilt and grab at the same time.
Thats how mine is anyway, no complaints. But I guess it depends on how much grab work you expect to do?

 

[fred]

in a nutshell. Cheapest tilty = double aux lines on dipper with a roller on each stick factory fitted.

expensive tilty. single aux line on dipper both sticks need to be replaced.

 

[Brendan]

in a nutshell. Cheapest tilty = double aux lines on dipper with a roller on each stick factory fitted.

expensive tilty. single aux line on dipper both sticks need to be replaced.

If I remember right you had a tilty The kx030?

Did you use the factory aux lines or expensive route

 

[Left hooker]

Don't for get the need for hyd-hitch lines if you want that as well or have a manual s30 hitch

 

[GazCro]

There's an awful lot of variables to consider especially at the smaller end of the market. You are doing the right thing for a start getting s type buckets and i would make sure to get a proper s type hitch (made by a tilty manufacturer). Something to consider is what you are gonna run under the tilty if just buckets i think extra lines on machine and 4 pipe tilty would work ok. But if you want any kind of hydraulic attachment under the tilty you're gonna need extra switching/valves etc. You're also gonna need quick hitch control x2 if top and bottom hitch. Pricing it's the only way to know for sure but i would think the gap between "full fat" tilty with control system versus extra lines from factory extra hitch control change over valve from tilt to grab etc may not be as much as you think. It may certainly be close enough to make up your mind.

 

[Brendan]

There's an awful lot of variables to consider especially at the smaller end of the market. You are doing the right thing for a start getting s type buckets and i would make sure to get a proper s type hitch (made by a tilty manufacturer). Something to consider is what you are gonna run under the tilty if just buckets i think extra lines on machine and 4 pipe tilty would work ok. But if you want any kind of hydraulic attachment under the tilty you're gonna need extra switching/valves etc. You're also gonna need quick hitch control x2 if top and bottom hitch. Pricing it's the only way to know for sure but i would think the gap between "full fat" tilty with control system versus extra lines from factory extra hitch control change over valve from tilt to grab etc may not be as much as you think. It may certainly be close enough to make up your mind.

Sent emails Thursday to engcon, steel wrist and rototilt will wait to see what crops up if they reply

 

[CPS]

Sent emails Thursday to engcon, steel wrist and rototilt will wait to see what crops up if they reply

Il answer for Rototilt if you like

AS with all things there are a few ways of doing it.

So first off,
S type, it will be your only option in the sub 3 ton size machine..... pretty sure for all the manufactures.

Control systems are were most people have the problem deciding.
Forget about the push button systems, pretty sure there is only one manufacture in the UK offering it.

I'm speaking about Rototilt systems now, and the R1 Tiltrotator, although the main players will all have a system similar.

All the systems will give you tilt-rotate-Extra (aux) Double extra on the R2 size up I.E aux and gripper.

TLE, is a 4 hose system, it uses the machine's double Aux lines and a boom cable to the tiltly. Tilt and rotate via the Aux lines, hold a button (wired into a spare joystick button) and switch to the extra lines for grab etc. The Hydraulic hitch is also operated this way, all done through its own the little box of tricks, very simple works well.
This also leaves the machines quick hitch lines free for the top hitch, or not at all needed on a direct mount system, saving 3-400 quid.

TE Is a 6 hose system, pretty much the exact same as the TLE but the machines QH lines are used for the tiltly bottom hitch instead of the top hitch.

ICS is the fully proportional control system, Tilt, rotate and extra, (2 extras on the R2 up) all at the same time, you can decide which roller on the joysticks do what and control the speed of each individual function etc. A real owner operators system. You may have the option to add boom swing or blade to the extra roller on the joystick depending on the machine as well as a lot of other things like track control....... budget depending

The top 3 will all offer this system, and will all be similar in price on a Like for Like system.

One other thing to consider on smaller machine is that the hammer lines are servo controlled! You wont be able to fit a control system to one if it is linkage operated! Kubota would be one that springs to mind.

Hope this helps
If you have any other questions just ask

 

[Monkeybusiness]

I’ve got a 4-hose (ie TLE system) Rototilt on a bobcat E27 which was ordered/delivered with the second set of proportional controls with rocker switches in the joysticks. It works well (I use the grab more than the bucket tbh, switching between grab and tilt is not a problem as far as I’m concerned) but the second service is taken off the boom offset, which is only fed by a 1/4 inch hose so doesn’t have a great deal of flow. I plumbed this to the rotate as wanted as much flow as possible going through the head to the tilty’s extra service (so used the hammer line for tilt/extra) the rotator needs a fair bit of oil to spin fast though, and the farty extra device on the Bobcat is lacking tbh so it rotates pretty slowly.
You’re welcome to come and have a poke around/do some digging etc if you are ever in Cheshire.

 

[Randla]

One other thing to consider on smaller machine is that the hammer lines are servo controlled! You wont be able to fit a control system to one if it is linkage operated! Kubota would be one that springs to mind.

Aiden - I'd just make the observation that we used to get around this by fitting a pilot operated valve in these cases. Added about £500 IIRC

 

[fred]

If I remember right you had a tilty The kx030?

Did you use the factory aux lines or expensive route

factory fitted aux.

also had integrated grab (never have a tilty without this its too handy) and hydraulic hitch.

 

[Randla]

factory fitted aux.

also had integrated grab (never have a tilty without this its too handy) and hydraulic hitch.

I'd add a word of caution here. Agreed - the integrated grabs are very handy but are heavy and - on this size of machine - non-detachable. With a grading bucket full of muck on a sub 3 tonner you are going to get very noddy. Better going for a sorting grab which you can swap off and on when you want rather than 50-odd kgs of metal that's aways there. They should be about the same price.

 

[fred]

id disagree with that, its hassle switching buckets to grab. the 2.8/3 tonners can handle it with a short dipper.

 

[Brendan]

id disagree with that, its hassle switching buckets to grab. the 2.8/3 tonners can handle it with a short dipper.

Was yours S40?

 

[Randla]

id disagree with that, its hassle switching buckets to grab. the 2.8/3 tonners can handle it with a short dipper.

OK - we'll agree to disagree Not sure about the Rototilt options but the yellow one only comes with a grab when you go for the EC204. For a start that size tilty is 45kgs heavier than it's smaller counterpart and the grab will double that. Add the dirt in the bucket and a conventional dipper and it's a problem on anything less than 3t and even more so with reduced tail swing diggers. I'm sure the manufacturers will sell you what you ask for but having driven pretty much every make around that size with those two tilties I know where my money would be.

 

[Brendan]

OK - we'll agree to disagree Not sure about the Rototilt options but the yellow one only comes with a grab when you go for the EC204. For a start that size tilty is 45kgs heavier than it's smaller counterpart and the grab will double that. Add the dirt in the bucket and a conventional dipper and it's a problem on anything less than 3t and even more so with reduced tail swing diggers. I'm sure the manufacturers will sell you what you ask for but having driven pretty much every make around that size with those two tilties I know where my money would be.

Is there a big weight difference between the grab attachment on s30 Vs S40 with gripper?

 

[Randla]

Is there a big weight difference between the grab attachment on s30 Vs S40 with gripper?

I'll leave Aiden @CPS to do the 'red' stuff but a small sorting grab was around 110kgs. The extra weight of the larger tilty with the gripper is a bit short of that (say around 90kgs ish) but you then have the weight of the bucket (say 80 - 100kgs) and what's in it. As I said, I agree with @fred that the grippers are amazingly convenient but on a small machine <3t you are on the edge of what really works. The extra 90kgs deadweight of the larger tilty and gripper also counts on the overall trailer weight and many setups are already on the edge. Maybe Ollie @Gunners would like to add his tuppence worth?