so ..... basically they're bust - - - continued

[Brendan]

Not been on a proper site in years, no wonder loads of companies are going bust, the bureaucracy and red tape is out of hand.
Best part of 1.5 hours to get the digger on site by the time done a massive induction and then arguing over the digger.
No lifting eyes, no check valves not used for any lifting operations and only earth moving and breaking out concrete so not covered under loler and no through examination needed. I have a check sheet that was done before it went out hire, more in depth than daily checklist but nothing too major and good enough to satisfy puwer.
His argument is that stuff is in the bucket so is being lifted, show him hse own guidance on loler and earth moving, a little bit of a wait for their health and safety main guy to so it's ok. So carry on and at the end of the day start clearing the holes out with a bucket where he comes out and says concrete is in the bucket so you need loler and that he has been a groundwork manager for a long time he knows what he is on about. There's loads of other crap on site that's over the top yet the steps to the toilet block aren't secure and move when the door hits the handrail

 

[V8Druid]

Not been on a proper site in years, no wonder loads of companies are going bust, the bureaucracy and red tape is out of hand.
Best part of 1.5 hours to get the digger on site by the time done a massive induction and then arguing over the digger.
No lifting eyes, no check valves not used for any lifting operations and only earth moving and breaking out concrete so not covered under loler and no through examination needed. I have a check sheet that was done before it went out hire, more in depth than daily checklist but nothing too major and good enough to satisfy puwer.
His argument is that stuff is in the bucket so is being lifted, show him hse own guidance on loler and earth moving, a little bit of a wait for their health and safety main guy to so it's ok. So carry on and at the end of the day start clearing the holes out with a bucket where he comes out and says concrete is in the bucket so you need loler and that he has been a groundwork manager for a long time he knows what he is on about. There's loads of other crap on site that's over the top yet the steps to the toilet block aren't secure and move when the door hits the handrail

so you loaded your machine and left ?? ........... Ws the lot of 'em

 

[groundworker]

Not been on a proper site in years, no wonder loads of companies are going bust, the bureaucracy and red tape is out of hand.
Best part of 1.5 hours to get the digger on site by the time done a massive induction and then arguing over the digger.
No lifting eyes, no check valves not used for any lifting operations and only earth moving and breaking out concrete so not covered under loler and no through examination needed. I have a check sheet that was done before it went out hire, more in depth than daily checklist but nothing too major and good enough to satisfy puwer.
His argument is that stuff is in the bucket so is being lifted, show him hse own guidance on loler and earth moving, a little bit of a wait for their health and safety main guy to so it's ok. So carry on and at the end of the day start clearing the holes out with a bucket where he comes out and says concrete is in the bucket so you need loler and that he has been a groundwork manager for a long time he knows what he is on about. There's loads of other crap on site that's over the top yet the steps to the toilet block aren't secure and move when the door hits the handrail

How do you keep your patience with these people? Is there enough money in the job to make it worthwhile?

I was sent details for a job last week, nice job on paper about 60k worth and mostly my kind of work. Went to see it in person and my heart sunk when I saw the miles of barriers, clean hi Vis and hard hats everywhere

Didn't realise it was going to be a 'proper' site, can almost guarantee the safety stuff will be endless.

 

[Brendan]

so you loaded your machine and left ?? ........... Ws the lot of 'em

This was at the end of the day about the concrete, meant to be going back Friday so my choices are have to pay for a thorough examination or just sack it off. It's only a 3 day job and for a new client so don't really want to leave them in the lurch

 

[V8Druid]

How do you keep your patience with these people? Is there enough money in the job to make it worthwhile?

I was sent details for a job last week, nice job on paper about 60k worth and mostly my kind of work. Went to see it in person and my heart sunk when I saw the miles of barriers, clean hi Vis and hard hats everywhere

Didn't realise it was going to be a 'proper' site, can almost guarantee the safety stuff will be endless.

try arriving in a crane on those sort of sites

 

[V8Druid]

This was at the end of the day about the concrete, meant to be going back Friday so my choices are have to pay for a thorough examination or just sack it off. It's only a 3 day job and for a new client so don't really want to leave them in the lurch

sounds like they deserve all that comes their way

 

[V8Druid]

Near 50% rise in construction companies on the brink

A regular analysis of the financial health of UK construction companies has found a near 50% rise in the number that are in critical distress.

www.theconstructionindex.co.uk

" Near 50% rise in construction companies on the brink​

A regular analysis of the financial health of UK construction companies has found a near 50% rise in the number that are in critical distress.​

The latest Red Flag Alert report from insolvency specialists Begbies Trayner Group (BTG) reports that in the fourth quarter (Q4) of 2025 the number of businesses experiencing ‘critical’ distress in the construction sector had increased year-on-year by 46.1% to 9,981.

There were also 108,213 construction firms found to be in ‘significant’ distress, which was a 10.9% more than a year before.

The areas of the construction industry with the most ‘significant’ distress were companies delivering ‘Development of building projects’ (up 12.7% to 14,968), ‘Construction of Domestic Buildings’ (up 9.9% to 12,121), and ‘Specialised design services’ (up 15% to 6,666).

High levels of significant distress were also experienced in the trades, with companies delivering ‘Electrical installation’ (up 13.4% to 7,953) and ‘Plumbing, heat and air-conditioning installation’ (up 13.6% to 7,604) also among the highest rates across construction.

Red Flag Alert has been measuring and reporting corporate financial distress since 2004. It has become a benchmark on the underlying health of companies across every sector and region of the UK. "

 

[Brendan]

How do you keep your patience with these people? Is there enough money in the job to make it worthwhile?

I was sent details for a job last week, nice job on paper about 60k worth and mostly my kind of work. Went to see it in person and my heart sunk when I saw the miles of barriers, clean hi Vis and hard hats everywhere

Didn't realise it was going to be a 'proper' site, can almost guarantee the safety stuff will be endless.

Had to download an app, setup all mine and vehicle , then you do the induction and questionnaire through the app, use their phone to look at the rams and sign them. I didn't turn the notifications so got an email about noise in warehouse and everyone should now wear ear defenders in there. Have to sign in to site on the app which I wasn't approved for ages or it just didn't update so my sign in was a few hours after I actually got to site but the gateman logs you out of site. There's stuff on the app about logging photos for progress, all sorts of stuff for deliveries, rams on there and then every single piece of equipment is also on there with pat tests. Had to do my own risk and method statement even though just machine and operator

 

[Routy56]

Not been on a proper site in years, no wonder loads of companies are going bust, the bureaucracy and red tape is out of hand.
Best part of 1.5 hours to get the digger on site by the time done a massive induction and then arguing over the digger.
No lifting eyes, no check valves not used for any lifting operations and only earth moving and breaking out concrete so not covered under loler and no through examination needed. I have a check sheet that was done before it went out hire, more in depth than daily checklist but nothing too major and good enough to satisfy puwer.
His argument is that stuff is in the bucket so is being lifted, show him hse own guidance on loler and earth moving, a little bit of a wait for their health and safety main guy to so it's ok. So carry on and at the end of the day start clearing the holes out with a bucket where he comes out and says concrete is in the bucket so you need loler and that he has been a groundwork manager for a long time he knows what he is on about. There's loads of other crap on site that's over the top yet the steps to the toilet block aren't secure and move when the door hits the handrail

Vote with yer feet on that one buddy
In 16 years of trading the only time I went on a 'proper site' after years ago for a big Company and the Site Manager had the cheek to ask to see my CPCS ticket
It was a "can you just help us out with some test holes job tomorrow" so I did expecting to get loads more easy work. The job was easy peasy and all done in a very short day. BUT they did not pay me for 3 months
So I bombarded them with daily emails and phone calls. The Contracts manager was so embarrassed blaming the accounts dept etc etc.
"Tell you what, I won't work for you lot again"
Never have advertised, loads of work out there. Sort of 'semi-retired' now and still had 2 "can you just jobs come in this week"

 

[Brendan]

Vote with yer feet on that one buddy
In 16 years of trading the only time I went on a 'proper site' after years ago for a big Company and the Site Manager had the cheek to ask to see my CPCS ticket
It was a "can you just help us out with some test holes job tomorrow" so I did expecting to get loads more easy work. The job was easy peasy and all done in a very short day. BUT they did not pay me for 3 months
So I bombarded them with daily emails and phone calls. The Contracts manager was so embarrassed blaming the accounts dept etc etc.
"Tell you what, I won't work for you lot again"
Never have advertised, loads of work out there. Sort of 'semi-retired' now and still had 2 "can you just jobs come in this week"

Had a site inspection a couple of years ago for a company we did a lot of work for, their safety guy went through everything including every single plaster and bandage in the first aid kit

 

[Smiffy]

Had to download an app, setup all mine and vehicle , then you do the induction and questionnaire through the app, use their phone to look at the rams and sign them. I didn't turn the notifications so got an email about noise in warehouse and everyone should now wear ear defenders in there. Have to sign in to site on the app which I wasn't approved for ages or it just didn't update so my sign in was a few hours after I actually got to site but the gateman logs you out of site. There's stuff on the app about logging photos for progress, all sorts of stuff for deliveries, rams on there and then every single piece of equipment is also on there with pat tests. Had to do my own risk and method statement even though just machine and operator

You should try working on an airport or other critical or government infrastructure.
I replaced a road sign the other day.

Write rams and apply for permit to carry out pas128 survey- 1hr

Received pas128 survey results back 1 week later.

Email BT to arrange a BT inspection.

Write RAMS for carrying out work and apply for 3 permits, one to do the work, one for service records and one for ground penetrating work- 2 hours and 3-5 day turn around.

Log work party onto permit A at the begging of the shift.

Phone control centre to activate permit b (depending on area there might be 3 different permits to activate with 3 different control centres)

Carry out the work ( prior to this all the work party and managers have to do upto 15 induction modules to take in person and online that could take upto 3days)

 

[Lancs Lad]

Hence..

Britain's infrastructure is too expensive

Railways, Trams, and Roads all cost more to build in Britain

www.samdumitriu.com

 

[groundworker]

I can understand some of this stuff in a live infrastructure context eg air and rail.

Has anyone seen the documentary about Piper Alpha? That explosion was basically a result of a paperwork f**k up, something along the lines of part of a system being turned on when it was still being worked on, because the permits had been filed incorrectly.

However it's a bit ridiculous when it filters down to pathetic little jobs. We were turned away from a 1 day job as the 'main contractor' (job had nothing to do with them really, they just happened to be on the same premises) wanted a week to review and log our RAMS... this was to repair a bit of drainage 600 deep.

 

[Brendan]

You should try working on an airport or other critical or government infrastructure.
I replaced a road sign the other day.

Write rams and apply for permit to carry out pas128 survey- 1hr

Received pas128 survey results back 1 week later.

Email BT to arrange a BT inspection.

Write RAMS for carrying out work and apply for 3 permits, one to do the work, one for service records and one for ground penetrating work- 2 hours and 3-5 day turn around.

Log work party onto permit A at the begging of the shift.

Phone control centre to activate permit b (depending on area there might be 3 different permits to activate with 3 different control centres)

Carry out the work ( prior to this all the work party and managers have to do upto 15 induction modules to take in person and online that could take upto 3days)

That's insane so a day of actual work ends up being multiple with all the behind the scenes paperwork

 

[Stroppymonkey]

And people wonder why HS2 is such a cluster f**k

 

[Regy53]

Not been on a proper site in years, no wonder loads of companies are going bust, the bureaucracy and red tape is out of hand.
Best part of 1.5 hours to get the digger on site by the time done a massive induction and then arguing over the digger.
No lifting eyes, no check valves not used for any lifting operations and only earth moving and breaking out concrete so not covered under loler and no through examination needed. I have a check sheet that was done before it went out hire, more in depth than daily checklist but nothing too major and good enough to satisfy puwer.
His argument is that stuff is in the bucket so is being lifted, show him hse own guidance on loler and earth moving, a little bit of a wait for their health and safety main guy to so it's ok. So carry on and at the end of the day start clearing the holes out with a bucket where he comes out and says concrete is in the bucket so you need loler and that he has been a groundwork manager for a long time he knows what he is on about. There's loads of other crap on site that's over the top yet the steps to the toilet block aren't secure and move when the door hits the handrail

We priced up a popular dealer system yesterday... IT manages stock, parts, workshop jobs and can do invoices etc. but thats about it.

£25k plus VAT
£480 a month for 5 users
£8000 a year management fees.

its no wonder people cant make busienss work

 

[Stroppymonkey]

We priced up a popular dealer system yesterday... IT manages stock, parts, workshop jobs and can do invoices etc. but thats about it.

£25k plus VAT
£480 a month for 5 users
£8000 a year management fees.

its no wonder people cant make busienss work

KIng hell. Our CMS is about £9000 a year for 11 operatives (inc office team). That runs stock control and parts and diaries and apps and parts and customers etc etc. I think it’s dear but not anymore

Still cheaper than a Costa coffee a day per person

 

[Brendan]

That's some brutal costs for for software, do they save more than they cost though

 

[Smiffy]

That's insane so a day of actual work ends up being multiple with all the behind the scenes paperwork

Yeah.
You have to rely on bulking jobs together and for small jobs you can cut time by reusing sections of rams. But if you don't change it up enough or make it to generic they will reject the permit.
Each permit application cost £100 and there are about 20 different permits. You can require multiple for a single task, so a sign post is £300 in permits. A pothole requires hotworks permits if you need line marking or hotbox so another £100. Same again for fire alarm isolation and loads of different electrical permits.
The Pas survey is best part of £1000 per day so if you only have one location to survey you have spent nearly 2 grand before you get on site.

And they reject the permits for fun. I had all mine rejected the other day as they decided a line had to be included in all rams to say the permits must be logged on and off at the beginning and end of the shift. Before you just had to say you would obtain a permit. They didn't communicate this. I had 4 jobs rejected with a note on them. So that's 4x £300 in rejected permits in one day.

I had a shift cancelled as I had a job that covered 2 zones so required 2 hot works permits. Hot works permits require an equipment inspection prior to issue. They inspected the equipment but only signed off one permit. I rang up to activate a permit on phase 2 and got told I needed to get kit inspected, despite them already inspecting it and it being on constant use for the previous 5nights at the other end of the road. And noone available to carry out the inspection.
Oh and you can't pre book inspections. You phone up at the beginning of the shift and they will tell you if they have availability to do it.

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Yeah.
You have to rely on bulking jobs together and for small jobs you can cut time by reusing sections of rams. But if you don't change it up enough or make it to generic they will reject the permit.
Each permit application cost £100 and there are about 20 different permits. You can require multiple for a single task, so a sign post is £300 in permits. A pothole requires hotworks permits if you need line marking or hotbox so another £100. Same again for fire alarm isolation and loads of different electrical permits.
The Pas survey is best part of £1000 per day so if you only have one location to survey you have spent nearly 2 grand before you get on site.

And they reject the permits for fun. I had all mine rejected the other day as they decided a line had to be included in all rams to say the permits must be logged on and off at the beginning and end of the shift. Before you just had to say you would obtain a permit. They didn't communicate this. I had 4 jobs rejected with a note on them. So that's 4x £300 in rejected permits in one day.

I had a shift cancelled as I had a job that covered 2 zones so required 2 hot works permits. Hot works permits require an equipment inspection prior to issue. They inspected the equipment but only signed off one permit. I rang up to activate a permit on phase 2 and got told I needed to get kit inspected, despite them already inspecting it and it being on constant use for the previous 5nights at the other end of the road. And noone available to carry out the inspection.
Oh and you can't pre book inspections. You phone up at the beginning of the shift and they will tell you if they have availability to do it.

You have to pay the customer for their permits to work on their behalf?! And then I assume you bill them back for these costs?! WTF!!!