so ..... basically they're bust - - - continued

[Smiffy]

You have to pay the customer for their permits to work on their behalf?! And then I assume you bill them back for these costs?! WTF!!!

Yes.
I think it is done to stop companies applying for permits they don't necessarily need, and jamming the system up.
Also a permit only lasts 2 months. So long term jobs you have to reapply for the permit repeatedly.
They aren't task specific though. So you have the client based permit system and then your own site based permit system. So for example I did a road overhaul package. I applied for a ground penetrating permit to cover the road. Then in the site office I maintained a a paper based permit to dig system for each task/day.
And at the end of each month all internal permits get uploaded to a portal where I presume a.i checks to make sure everything seems legit.

 

[hiluxman]

Ffs, what is the actual cost of a proper hour of graft on site by the time you've done all that s**t.

 

[Giles]

Is this airside on an airport or just on a road? Ffs world has gone mad I used to do a bit on nhs sites for some of the big Civiis firms but when it started taking a day or two in paperwork to hand dig one 3 foot long trench etc I was done with it and that was 15 years ago

 

[Brendan]

Yeah.
You have to rely on bulking jobs together and for small jobs you can cut time by reusing sections of rams. But if you don't change it up enough or make it to generic they will reject the permit.
Each permit application cost £100 and there are about 20 different permits. You can require multiple for a single task, so a sign post is £300 in permits. A pothole requires hotworks permits if you need line marking or hotbox so another £100. Same again for fire alarm isolation and loads of different electrical permits.
The Pas survey is best part of £1000 per day so if you only have one location to survey you have spent nearly 2 grand before you get on site.

And they reject the permits for fun. I had all mine rejected the other day as they decided a line had to be included in all rams to say the permits must be logged on and off at the beginning and end of the shift. Before you just had to say you would obtain a permit. They didn't communicate this. I had 4 jobs rejected with a note on them. So that's 4x £300 in rejected permits in one day.

I had a shift cancelled as I had a job that covered 2 zones so required 2 hot works permits. Hot works permits require an equipment inspection prior to issue. They inspected the equipment but only signed off one permit. I rang up to activate a permit on phase 2 and got told I needed to get kit inspected, despite them already inspecting it and it being on constant use for the previous 5nights at the other end of the road. And noone available to carry out the inspection.
Oh and you can't pre book inspections. You phone up at the beginning of the shift and they will tell you if they have availability to do it.

So that must mean some 1 or 2 day jobs can cost more in permits than the actual labour, does this sort of thing carry over from the high risk sites to normal big sites or stuff like hs2

 

[Smiffy]

Is this airside on an airport or just on a road? Ffs world has gone mad I used to do a bit on nhs sites for some of the big Civiis firms but when it started taking a day or two in paperwork to hand dig one 3 long trench etc I was done with it and that was 15 years ago

Its blanket rules. It doesn't matter if you are resurfacing the runway or repairing a post and rail fence on the bit of community enrichment woodland they own a mile away. If the airport authority own the land the same system applies.
I would have to ask colleagues about the rail permit system as I don't do rail.
Of everything i do, airports are the strictest.

Apart from the whole airplane and security thing, there are strict rules resulting from the Dusseldorf airport fire in 1996.

 

[V8Druid]

Yeah.
You have to rely on bulking jobs together and for small jobs you can cut time by reusing sections of rams. But if you don't change it up enough or make it to generic they will reject the permit.
Each permit application cost £100 and there are about 20 different permits. You can require multiple for a single task, so a sign post is £300 in permits. A pothole requires hotworks permits if you need line marking or hotbox so another £100. Same again for fire alarm isolation and loads of different electrical permits.
The Pas survey is best part of £1000 per day so if you only have one location to survey you have spent nearly 2 grand before you get on site.

And they reject the permits for fun. I had all mine rejected the other day as they decided a line had to be included in all rams to say the permits must be logged on and off at the beginning and end of the shift. Before you just had to say you would obtain a permit. They didn't communicate this. I had 4 jobs rejected with a note on them. So that's 4x £300 in rejected permits in one day.

I had a shift cancelled as I had a job that covered 2 zones so required 2 hot works permits. Hot works permits require an equipment inspection prior to issue. They inspected the equipment but only signed off one permit. I rang up to activate a permit on phase 2 and got told I needed to get kit inspected, despite them already inspecting it and it being on constant use for the previous 5nights at the other end of the road. And noone available to carry out the inspection.
Oh and you can't pre book inspections. You phone up at the beginning of the shift and they will tell you if they have availability to do it.

****ing license to print

 

[Smiffy]

****ing license to print

It's not though because it is all charged for. It just increases turn over. We know how many permits we will need for each job. Plus an allowance for rejected permits. Plus admin time. It's a separate item on every quote we send out. Obviously adjusted for the facility we are working at. All the companies know this. The only reason I can think that they charge is to stop people flooding the system with unnecessary permits and to put more effort into doing it right the first time.
The prices charged for some facilities due to the rigmarole of working there seems extortionate. But when you break down the cost of operating in these environments it doesn't equate to profit.
They are absolutely impossible environments to operate in as a small company.