Grahams
Don't complain - suggest what's better
I've got them on all my excavators. Worth their weight in gold to me as most of my jobs are awkward. Expensive, but as I am on a fixed price the time savings I can achieve easily pay for them. As has been mentioned the Scandinavian style buckets work better than standard buckets with them in my opinion.
If I had enough work for it I would upgrade the one on my larger machine to oil quick and high flow through the head as it doesn't currently have enough flow to run all my attachments. Have to run some off the breaker circuit, but can still achieve 360 degree rotation, but only 180 each way, not continuous rotation. Would upgrade the two smaller ones, but oil quick and high flow are not available.
Graham
If I had enough work for it I would upgrade the one on my larger machine to oil quick and high flow through the head as it doesn't currently have enough flow to run all my attachments. Have to run some off the breaker circuit, but can still achieve 360 degree rotation, but only 180 each way, not continuous rotation. Would upgrade the two smaller ones, but oil quick and high flow are not available.
Graham
TiltyShaun
Well-known member
Nick.
Included 3 buckets and they fitted new joy sticks. I think they normally charge fitting but I took my digger to them and managed to persuade them not to charge!!
Included 3 buckets and they fitted new joy sticks. I think they normally charge fitting but I took my digger to them and managed to persuade them not to charge!!
Nick...
Well-known member
Seems too good to be true
Nick...
Nick...
sjs5060
Well-known member
Current price Nick is £7800 fitted, that's direct mount with a manual hitch underneath. That includes three buckets but be aware that you can't run attachments under this basic unit.
A more complex one with a proper control system is around £10,700 fitted, that's direct mount with a hydraulic hitch, no buckets tho.
I've had a play with the basic setup where you push your breaker pedal to supply power then press buttons on top of the sticks to make it move. It is useable and the lad that has it doing similar work to you and me nick is well pleased with it. If you could run a grab under that unit I'd have bought one there and then. The other control system is bloody good tho, worth the price difference? If your not wanting to run an attachment I'm not sure it is. You'd soon get used to the basic setup and for anything other than straight line trenching would make your work more efficient.
Ste
A more complex one with a proper control system is around £10,700 fitted, that's direct mount with a hydraulic hitch, no buckets tho.
I've had a play with the basic setup where you push your breaker pedal to supply power then press buttons on top of the sticks to make it move. It is useable and the lad that has it doing similar work to you and me nick is well pleased with it. If you could run a grab under that unit I'd have bought one there and then. The other control system is bloody good tho, worth the price difference? If your not wanting to run an attachment I'm not sure it is. You'd soon get used to the basic setup and for anything other than straight line trenching would make your work more efficient.
Ste
TiltyShaun
Well-known member
You are right about the attachment situation. I am going to get around to fitting a diverter so I can at least put my post hole knocker underneath it. I don't really take on much breaker work so I intend to just hire in one if I need it. The ripper tooth, nick named the onion stabbed, had been amazing attacking tree roots and also pulling up concrete!! My machine is not a new one so it was for me still quite an investment. Am I happy.....YES
Pedrod355
Well-known member
Gunners
Well-known member
I've been thinking about the simple "button and pedal" control system as I drove it earlier this year at the dig day. I agree it was surprisingly more usable than I thought it would be although the U20 is still a horrible place to spend a shift and the pedal was a bit awkward to constantly "hover" your foot over. So, as I'm considering replacing my current machine I've been wondering if you could spec a roller on the joystick for the twin acting circuit and have a button that switches from rotate to tilt. This would simplify the 4 button system I tried and make it wayy better to use and still keep the cost down. Or am I dreaming here?
Love that EC27D above, had a look at one at Plantworks, some nice details on them.
Love that EC27D above, had a look at one at Plantworks, some nice details on them.
Antony Holmes
Well-known member
Hi Gunners
i don't know about the Volvo but the kubota kx27-4 hi-spec has 2 x proportional circuits and pipe work so the tilti of your choice as a 4 pipe system but i don't think you can fit a grab under you tilt with system i have a full proportional system with rollers this allows me to use my hi-flow circuit for a hammer or hedge cutter and run a grab under my tilt good luck with your shopping all i can say get as much info as you can ( i made a compleat james hunt of my first set up but now i am rely happy with my set up )
i don't know about the Volvo but the kubota kx27-4 hi-spec has 2 x proportional circuits and pipe work so the tilti of your choice as a 4 pipe system but i don't think you can fit a grab under you tilt with system i have a full proportional system with rollers this allows me to use my hi-flow circuit for a hammer or hedge cutter and run a grab under my tilt good luck with your shopping all i can say get as much info as you can ( i made a compleat james hunt of my first set up but now i am rely happy with my set up )
BertB.
Active member
Still trying to convince the boss that an Eng-Con on the Kobelco or the Hitachi is the way to go we use regular tilt buckets quite regularly but its not easy. So this is what we have for now.
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
Since Plantworx 2017 we've spent quite a bit of time broadening the options (apologies to all who know this from the old forum, but hopefully some repetition will be acceptable)
With a single hammer line you have three options - Ollie's 'button and roller' which gives you tilt OR rotate and which is the simplest one. Think of it as a tilting hitch with a rotator and you won't go far wrong. Next up is TiltyShaun's where we put a higher level control system in and change the joysticks. This gives you tilt AND rotate on buttons and you control the flow/speed through the hammer pedal. Adds about a Grand to the price. You don't have any extra functions below the tilty and the hitch(es) are manual.
Last up is the all-singing, all-dancing DC2 fully proportional system (the one that Steve referred to at the Wigan Big Dig Day - Shaun Gratton's machine). Tilt and rotate independently controlled with extra (proportional) functions available below the tilty available all the time. Automatic hitch(es). Adds a further £3,500 ish. but upgradable to include things like track control and blade on the joysticks. Entry level (Ollie's above) starts at around £6k on a 2.5 tonner including three buckets with £500 to fit.
HTH
Robert
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
Not sure what you've got Antony, but with two proportional lines it is certainly possible to add a control system to give you the extra functions under the tilty, including a auto hitch and grab. Generically known as SS9.
regards
Robert
Antony Holmes
Well-known member
Hi Robert
sorry for the confusion on my hi-speck i have a rt10 rototit with full proportional controls on rollers one for tilt and one for the rotate, as well as proportional controls on a roller to control a 15 lt per m connection on the rototilt for my grab. all of this is from the low flow circuit this leaves my hi-flow line free for my hedge cutter or hammer this i also have controlled with a roller, the hi-flow line is not plumed through the rototilt but i can still get 360 if needed but only 180 deg each way.
what i was describing above was that as far a i know, you can fit a torotilt using the machine controls and not having to go to the expense of a fancy control system.
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
Hello Antony. Several things here:
From what you describe, you are controlling the tilt and rotate functions on your Rototilt using the digger's proportional controls with a latching relay to switch the low flow (tilt) circuit to your grab or other attachments and, possibly, your tiltrotator hitch. Good, robust system and, for many, the standard - generically known as a four-hose, or SS9 system. It's not clear, but I am presuming that you do not have a separate roller for the grab, otherwise this would be the higher-level SS10 system (I think Rototilt call this ICS). On tilties, the rotation circuit uses more flow, so it is normal to plumb it into the H/F circuit; although it can be done the other way according to the attachments that you are using.
On a smaller unit you cannot get high flow rates through the tilty's swivel so it is normal to forgo the rotation (or tilt) function and plumb the H/F attachment directly into the H/F circuit on the dipper, but this means you will lose the corresponding tilt or rotate function. You said you have 180 degree rotation either way (restricted by the hoses plumbed directly into the dipper), so it looks like rotate circuit is plumbed into the L/F to allow this - we would have (and have) done it the same way in these circumstances. Sorry for the lengthy preamble but we get this question a lot and it may help others who are considering a similar setup.
To get to the point; out of the box, your hi-spec will power a tilty without a control system. BUT, you will only have tilt and rotate. This is because you need a separately controlled hydraulic circuit for each function and you only have two on the digger. If you want a automatic (tilty) hitch, then you need a separate hitch circuit - this is known as a six-hose solution. With this setup you wouldn't be able to power your grab at the same time - this is why you need the latching relay (SS9) or the higher-level proportional valves in the tilty (SS10). This lower-level system is perfectly OK (we sell quite a few of them) and is a lot cheaper than the higher-level ones, but it is not upgradable.
For this reason, when one is weighing up the control system to opt for on a tilty, always add all of the costs of the various options up. Going for higher spec digger hydraulics can potentially save money by allowing a low spec tilty, but it will restrict the functionality of the tilty and may limit one's options later on.
HTH,
Robert
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
the button and pedal system gives you simultaneous op of both tilt and rotate though
.... [Robert ???] .... least mine does .... full size pedal helps a lot though
Antony Holmes
Well-known member
Hi RobertHello Antony. Several things here:
From what you describe, you are controlling the tilt and rotate functions on your Rototilt using the digger's proportional controls with a latching relay to switch the low flow (tilt) circuit to your grab or other attachments and, possibly, your tiltrotator hitch. Good, robust system and, for many, the standard - generically known as a four-hose, or SS9 system. It's not clear, but I am presuming that you do not have a separate roller for the grab, otherwise this would be the higher-level SS10 system (I think Rototilt call this ICS). On tilties, the rotation circuit uses more flow, so it is normal to plumb it into the H/F circuit; although it can be done the other way according to the attachments that you are using.
On a smaller unit you cannot get high flow rates through the tilty's swivel so it is normal to forgo the rotation (or tilt) function and plumb the H/F attachment directly into the H/F circuit on the dipper, but this means you will lose the corresponding tilt or rotate function. You said you have 180 degree rotation either way (restricted by the hoses plumbed directly into the dipper), so it looks like rotate circuit is plumbed into the L/F to allow this - we would have (and have) done it the same way in these circumstances. Sorry for the lengthy preamble but we get this question a lot and it may help others who are considering a similar setup.
To get to the point; out of the box, your hi-spec will power a tilty without a control system. BUT, you will only have tilt and rotate. This is because you need a separately controlled hydraulic circuit for each function and you only have two on the digger. If you want a automatic (tilty) hitch, then you need a separate hitch circuit - this is known as a six-hose solution. With this setup you wouldn't be able to power your grab at the same time - this is why you need the latching relay (SS9) or the higher-level proportional valves in the tilty (SS10). This lower-level system is perfectly OK (we sell quite a few of them) and is a lot cheaper than the higher-level ones, but it is not upgradable.
For this reason, when one is weighing up the control system to opt for on a tilty, always add all of the costs of the various options up. Going for higher spec digger hydraulics can potentially save money by allowing a low spec tilty, but it will restrict the functionality of the tilty and may limit one's options later on.
HTH,
Robert
you are spot on with most of that my control system is a ICS system and the grab is on its own roller and is also proportional, i also got my hi-flow line is wired through the rototilt leavers on a roller.
hopefully by the time i want to change the machine 3-4 years some one will have advanced the tilties so i can get the hi flow throw the hitch too here's hoping.
just as aside i have had my rototilt set up correctly for about a year now and it is only just become 2nd nature to operate it may be an age thing.
B
Brendan
Well-known member
Out of interest why can't the lower spec unit be upgraded?
Antony Holmes
Well-known member
a couple of pictures of the fitting of my rototilt to my KX27-4 last year My thanks to Young Plant sales for letting me use one of their workshops to do the change over
it is a bit scare taking all those bits off a brand new digger but with a little bit (may be more than a little help) of help from Steve at Rototilt UK all was well
it is a bit scare taking all those bits off a brand new digger but with a little bit (may be more than a little help) of help from Steve at Rototilt UK all was well
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
Correct, Grahamthe button and pedal system gives you simultaneous op of both tilt and rotate though
In fairness to you, when you built your
), you used a development of a control technique that the Swedes developed back in the early days. The first ones were a single button-and-pedal arrangement which gave you tilt or rotate (controlled by the button) with the flow and direction on the pedal. We called this SS1 (literally: Steering System 1). Shortly after this buttons were added to the joysticks (sometimes self-adhesive), which gave you independent control of tilt and rotate simultaneously, with the flow on the pedal. We recently resurrected this for smaller diggers as a simple starter system - it's perfectly usable (as you have ably demonstrated at Druid Central) and, for many that have been brought up to control flow on the pedal, very acceptable. I agree with Ollie that, on the U25 at least, it's a bit tight in the cabin, but that's more a statement about the digger than the system (which is generically known as SS15, BTW)Robert
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
Lower spec systems generally use either no valves or non-proportional valves in the tilty, Brendan. Think of it this way - you can have either a clever digger and an idiot tilty, or vice versa (there is one in between, but leave that to one side for now).
The clever digger/idiot tilty works when you have two proportional controls on the joysticks as standard. These control the tilt and rotate independently (and generally do it very well). But you have to remember that for each (independent) tiltrotator function you want, you have to have a separate circuit - 2 lines - going down the dipper. That's four lines so far (add another two for the hitch control). Add anything more and it begins to look like an octopus (literally) at the business end. This is all because there are no control valves (or controls) in the tilty.
At the other end you have the full monty (generically called SS10 - DC2 in Engcon's case and ICS in Antony's Rototilt). The digger has a single hammer line at the end of the dipper and the tilty's proportional valves and associated controls decide which ones open, by how much and in which direction - all on retrospectively fitted joysticks with as many rollers as you can shake a stick at. Hence you get simultaneous tilt, rotate, up to 2 extra functions underneath and hitch control too using a single hydraulic circuit to the end of the dipper.
If you start with a idiot tilty, it's often uneconomic to retrospectively add this functionality (certainly for us as manufacturers), so if you need to trade up, trade in.
Robert
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