JD450A
Moderattor🐾
the others are immitations.
Mark
Well-known member
Here’s a photo of me just after driving “down the road to plough a field with a fuel bowser on the back”
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JD450A
Moderattor🐾
Here’s a photo of me just after driving “down the road to plough a field with a fuel bowser on the back”
I once went ploughing with the drawbar of a fuel proof bowser.... but that's a story for another day
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Smiffy
Well-known member
The design speed for a fixed axle agricultural trailer I believe is 20mph or 32kph and for that tractor is 40kph so by your own reckoning it's illegal surely.
I do know that bloke and tbh I think he has every right to be annoyed
He has worked incredibly hard to build that company having started with nothing and has repeatedly had things made difficult for him by the powers that be
The level of technology his lorrys are running to stay compliant on the major sites is unbelievable.
Everyone complains on here constantly about people undercutting the job by doing it half arsed and if you realised the level of tech going into those lorrys to do the job properly just in the form of the fuel monitoring and allocation software for major sites then you would realise how naff a tractor trailer setup is for sites running large quantities of plant.
I do know that bloke and tbh I think he has every right to be annoyed
He has worked incredibly hard to build that company having started with nothing and has repeatedly had things made difficult for him by the powers that be
The level of technology his lorrys are running to stay compliant on the major sites is unbelievable.
Everyone complains on here constantly about people undercutting the job by doing it half arsed and if you realised the level of tech going into those lorrys to do the job properly just in the form of the fuel monitoring and allocation software for major sites then you would realise how naff a tractor trailer setup is for sites running large quantities of plant.
JD450A
Moderattor🐾
All gets very complicated with Construction and Use Smiffy. You could well be right, but even then the allowance still stands with the exemption for running Short distances between private premises/sites.... Most road works sections are linear and you have to drive through the entire set of works.... this may be miles but if HE classify that stretch of A road as a site then it's fine.
I have no respect I'm afraid for the tactic of trying to ramraid people off hire via the likes of linked in.... Watery Land tried to do it to Clive a year or two ago regarding his Amphibs. Made them look a knob in the end and rightly so.... then it transpired part of there OEM fleet definitely wasn't OEM which was hilarious.
Yes he's invested in some lorries and I'm sure he was told off may times by the powers in charge but to be very blunt that is the nature of the industry he has chosen. 4x4 lorries aren't cheap, nor is a ADR driver, etc etc. But the bottom line is there is nothing to stop him doing it the way anyone else does via the pathways given in the legislation.
There is a difference between a half arsed job and a job done with lesser equipment.... now if he was complaining that they where running diesel round in a site dumper skip that is a correct comparison to a half arsed job...... But that tractor and bowser will do the same standard of work as his lorry..... and being bunded I'd argue it's actually safer on a site as in the event of a rollover there is a much lower risk of puncturing or spillage. Having driven one with a hiab those man 4x4 units definitely don't like cross slopes I will tell you that!
As for needing the tech, yes that's fine.... but not everywhere needs it.
Mark
Well-known member
nothing naff about that setup at all and it is perfect for running large quantities of plant. Every bit of technology you talk about fuel delivery systems I have seen it fitted on fuel proof tankers before.
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JD450A
Moderattor🐾
The only bitchy moan he can have is the distance they are being roaded, BUT knowing the way HE operate if they had concerns about the legality it wouldn't be allowed. They know what is needed to make use of tractors legal on there projects and I guarantee they enforce it. All depends on what you class as a section of works.... etc etc. and that is above my interest or pay grade. I suspect the man knows this but likely has sour grapes.
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Smiffy
Well-known member
The bowsers are suitable for running fuel to items of plant for a single company.
Where the t and m lorries come in is the ability to log and track supply of diesel to multiple companies whilst avoiding spillage and theft by operators.
Also those lorrys are double bunded it's legislation in the UK that that design of tank has to be.
It's no different in all honesty to the members on here complaining about people running around with a mini for 150 a day.
It's perfectly legal but it will gripe someone who has gone the extra mile to supply a better service.
Mark
Well-known member
Personally I don’t see what there doing different that is revolutionary, there just trying to make it sound like it is. All our bowsers and tanks have been double bunded since the late 1990’s early 2000’s. You won’t get on a site now with out a double bunded tank.
As for spillages it can happen to every one. There would be a big premium put on the fuel if your letting them supply you and other clients out the same bowser. Any decent sized contract would save money buying direct from fuel suppliers.
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Smiffy
Well-known member
Those lorrys are on self drive hire most the time t and m operate very few it's the main contractor dealing with fuel
And I think on a lot of the big sites all diesel is supplied to stop gangs running around with cans in the van which isn't acceptable
But where this fuel goes needs to be tracked
Those lorrys are fitted with RFID readers in the gun
All machinery on site has an RFID chip in the filler neck
The pump on the lorry won't even turn on without the RFID reader picking up a chip
So very difficult to spill anything and very difficult to nick diesel as each RFID chip is individual
It all runs back through a computer system to know where fuel is allocated
It also then tracks the fuel usage of machines to show up any discrepancy
So anyone syphoning diesel shows up on the system.
The lorrys also have self filling systems and ground level filling
All of this was called for by the major players.
Therefore you can understand the kick in the teeth if you spend time and money to spec equipment as is asked for then someone running in a slightly grey area regards there road traveling distance gets the contract.
JD450A
Moderattor🐾
Right, lets just wait a second.
So you think because someone has spent a load of money on a load of RFID chips, some self filling systems and ground level filling and then goes to a site where either the above is not required, or it has been fitted to a alternate type of bowser it gives them the right to launch toys out of the pram? To me that's like someone with GPS and a Tilty moaning that me and a Digger can do the same job for less most places.
It's not a grey area.... the Legislation is there in black and white. Close proximity between sites has always been allowed. that's Yard - Entrance of works. and it's quite possible HE are classing the works as encompassing the entire road if plant is having to be roaded to multiple works entrances.
It's a case of someone getting upset because he's likely been told he's not required....
I don't believe those lorries they are bunded either..... Double skinned perhaps, but I don't think there are bunding requirements within CDG or ADR but I'll pick someone's brains on that tomorrow....
So you think because someone has spent a load of money on a load of RFID chips, some self filling systems and ground level filling and then goes to a site where either the above is not required, or it has been fitted to a alternate type of bowser it gives them the right to launch toys out of the pram? To me that's like someone with GPS and a Tilty moaning that me and a Digger can do the same job for less most places.
It's not a grey area.... the Legislation is there in black and white. Close proximity between sites has always been allowed. that's Yard - Entrance of works. and it's quite possible HE are classing the works as encompassing the entire road if plant is having to be roaded to multiple works entrances.
It's a case of someone getting upset because he's likely been told he's not required....
I don't believe those lorries they are bunded either..... Double skinned perhaps, but I don't think there are bunding requirements within CDG or ADR but I'll pick someone's brains on that tomorrow....
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Mark
Well-known member
Might stop theft out of the bowser doesn’t stop theft from the 20 odd machines that’s parked up with diesel in them over night.
Could you imagine if the rfid sticker got damaged or stoped working on your prime mover and couldn’t get fuel in it due to the fancy refuelling gun. All new machines have product link where fuel burn can be accessed online, it even goes as far as working out out your average fuel burn and predicts what you should be achieving. We get bench Mark reports from the oem manufacturers comparing our fuel burn of our machines vs the rest of the uk average for the same machine class. This is done monthly but can be done weekly if you like.
Could you imagine if the rfid sticker got damaged or stoped working on your prime mover and couldn’t get fuel in it due to the fancy refuelling gun. All new machines have product link where fuel burn can be accessed online, it even goes as far as working out out your average fuel burn and predicts what you should be achieving. We get bench Mark reports from the oem manufacturers comparing our fuel burn of our machines vs the rest of the uk average for the same machine class. This is done monthly but can be done weekly if you like.
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Smiffy
Well-known member
It's a grey area until the exact site and distance traveled are known
He says it's far it's far in excess so the post was valid in that form.
And it's more akin to your competitors being told they need the tilty and dig the the contract being awarded to you anyway despite there investment, in which case you can understand the annoyance.
And @Mark that's what the industry has demanded so that's what's required.
And your software on your machines software could then be linked to the fuel management software so that they know if what has been dispensed tally's up with what's used. I believe it was brought about by a massive amount of diesel being stolen by operators on Heathrow t5. In the thousands of litres a week.
The equipment is obviously required otherwise it wouldn't be fitted.
Storrsy
Well-known member
Ah ha, I was following a white Dmax over Laira bridge a fortnight ago, had that sticker on- had a feeling it was probably you!
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Lynchy
Well-known member
All machinery on site doesn't have a chip,asked bloke to fill one of ours up,just put a sticker on m/c with reference number,filled me up no probs?
Mark
Well-known member
Sounds like and over complicated job that a pen and clip board has been doing for years in my opinion. I’m all for technology but none of that nonsense is for me.
Left hooker
Well-known member
Being he's other side of the tamar could put "cream first"I’m sure the plant talk collective could dream up a name Rory could put on his illuminated head board above the cabto save him removing it
then if he comes to Cornwall we know to send him packing
JD450A
Moderattor🐾
The jam on top digger has been your side of the Tamar several times.....Being he's other side of the tamar could put "cream first"
It's not a grey area to the site though is it..... Knowing the way HE operate I would be very surprised if they are getting away with something illegal.... Why would I be surprised, because for the past month or more I've been on hire on HE jobs and I know how they operate.
The industry hasn't asked for all this shite, a couple jumped up organisations (notably HS2 I expect) probably have. Pays your money you take your chance....but don't expect the rest of us to care. With His attitude, if I was the project manager on the job photographed I'd s**t in my hands, clap and run the diesel out to the machines in 1l water bottles before I had his plant on site.
JD450A
Moderattor🐾
Was that the horrific driving that gave you that feeling
JD450A
Moderattor🐾
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Another cracker from Linked In.... apparently Its easy to work when you undercut everyone with 20 year old gear....
Pity I get more for my TB175's than some get for a brand new 130
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