Question for plant operators and fleet managers about Human Form Recognition

[Furniss]

well yeah but i always felt it was up to me to be clicked on as to whos around etc not so much up to me (the driver)but part of the skill of machine driving is being safe despite the circumstances..

 

[6feetdown]

well yeah but i always felt it was up to me to be clicked on as to whos around etc not so much up to me (the driver)but part of the skill of machine driving is being safe despite the circumstances..

I think you always check when your used to the machine

 

[Bri963]

I’ve had one pedestrian strike in nearly 50 years digging holes. On a gas pipeline job, some guy walked up on the blind side and squeezed between the counterweight and the trench. I swung left and knocked him into the trench. More recently I’ve been on a new D5 with human recognition, white noise reversing alarm, proximity sensors, 360 view cameras, extra mirrors, and it all causes more distractions due to sensory overload. The people specifying this s**t either haven’t operated to any level or are on backhanders.

 

[HarrieBrigade]

I think that's the last we'll see of our new friend

All comments are welcome. I am reading through them now. I have been busy telling other professional drivers how to do their jobs in other forums

as with all of this tish, it is only necessary due to the complete demise of common sense and the total annihilation of self preservation instincts in anyone under circa 40 years of age.
weened by a nanny state, they can't think for themselves, or recognise danger until they're about to be carted off in the meat wagon or 6 feet under

I survived growing up without all this crap, as did many others here

Sadly, there are many people who have been fatally injured or killed as a result of incidents in workplaces and on roads - these are reducing but aren't at zero yet so this is why there's the Vision Zero initiative globally (introduced by World Health Organization). Anything which supports drivers and helps to ensure they can work without the fear of someone else's poor choices or errors is surely a good thing? I have met drivers who have unfortunately been in an incident which has severely impacted their own mental health despite it not being their fault. This is about protecting professional drivers rather than making it more difficult for them. I hope that helps.

 

[HarrieBrigade]

Definitely not. What we are really after is system with a minimum of 5 different colour flashing lights. We dont just want the amber and the seat belt light. We need to have a light to indicate to ensure the operator is wearing their hard hat in the cab. As well as a separate light for hi vis. We find it very alarming the amount of operators who can't see the clear danger of taking a hard hat off whilst sat in a 30t machine loading lorries from on top of the pile. I also think it's prevalent to have an array of light up graffics around the machine as we repeatedly have problems with operatives being unable to see 20t of bright orange hitachi and walking into its working radius. I feel a 4in round stop symbol will be far easier to see. On top of this we think breatherlisers should be installed as we like to employ the type of characters who can't be trusted not to have whiskey on their wheatabix. And a few more light up screens, led light bars and buzzing and beeping boxes is far better for company image and LinkedIn posts than actual implementing both a quality screening process for potential heavy equipment operators. It also allows us to avoid those inconveniences and potentially profit affecting task like rigorous training regimes. Whilst allowing us to pay ourselves on the back and give management the bonuses they deserve for being forward thinking when it comes it comes to health and safety.

Thanks for your feedback.
I think some of it will be regulation requirements, such as Direct Vision Standard in London so there isn't much choice when legislation is passed as operators will need to comply whether they agree with the rules or not. It's interesting what you are saying about numerous lights etc. as we aim to ensure that we don't create something that is distracting (as obviously that's counterproductive) but instead supportive for drivers. False alerts has been a big thing we've spent time concentrating on reducing to avoid the fatigue that you and others have mentioned in relation to all the lights and alarms. Certainly on our last product, AI HFR Box, the alarms will only sound when someone is in immediate danger (and not if they happen to be passing by).

 

[HarrieBrigade]

Harrie, your going to get a lot of stick on here - basically, from an operator point of view, the systems fitted (personally I've only used the safety shield system) are a hinderance and annoyance to our working day.

The fact is, its always been an operators job to not hit a pedestrian. Be they the man your working with on the ground, or a random member of the site team who amble into your work area - usually totally oblivious to the hazards. I get the idea that the human form recognition system should in theory help us as its constantly monitoring for pedestrians and may well spot an intruder before the operator does.

However in practice, the thing is almost constantly going off! If its to become a truly useful piece of technology, then maybe the operator should be able to set it up to suit his work. If working alone then a full 360 scanning area would be appropriate. But say your working on drainage - a job that requires a banksman to be constantly within the working radius of the machine, maybe being able to turn off the front area would be useful. Certainly more useful than the system constantly telling me someone is there when I already know that! Very tiring after a full days work....

The real issue of course is the age old problem of people getting too close to plant in the first place! I'm a big believer in removing the hazard entirely, which then means you don't need to have secondary any safety measures such as HFR systems. You can achieve this with training, fencing, utilising technology to reduce the need for ground crew, and many other ways.

But we live in an age where we have to allow for the stupidity of people. Be that pedestrians and operators. And therefore we need to assume everyone is stupid (even though trained) and fit fool proof systems that cant be altered, rather than allow the operator to decide where the tech is useful to him or not.
I would actually have a system on my backhoe if I could configure it to be useful rather than annoying. Imagine if it worked only when reversing - which with the arm folded up behind you, is the more risky part of driving that machine. Cameras are good, so a mirrors, but they don't see everything and you cant watch them all at the same time. A warning to tell me someone is close when reversing would be genuinely useful. But do I need it all the time? No!

This is really interesting feedback, thank you. It sounds like you have an alternative supplier's safety device fitted. Many of the issues you have raised here have been addressed and developed in Brigade's products. While they aren't the cheapest devices available our engineers and developers spend a great deal of time fixing such issues like false alerts and not being able to create a bespoke arrangement of cameras etc. for specific vehicles and jobs. We work on the basis that safety tech on vehicles and machinery is there to support operators rather than hinder them. It's not simply cameras etc. which will ensure drivers stay incident free, but training and other factors as you quite rightly point out. As it happens we do products for backhoes and we offer bespoke options for operators and work with drivers to ensure they are useful rather than a hindrance to their working day. We configure our devices to minimise false alerts to practically zero as we are well aware of the feedback that too many lights and noises are distracting in their own right and also create fatigue and eventually get ignored by operators (so become redundant anyway). Our devices are only going to sound an alarm if there is someone is immediate danger rather than because they are just passing by.

 

[HarrieBrigade]

a good driver is pretty clicked on to whos around. whos visible etc without that annoyance, i suppose its trying to make it safe in the instance that its a muppet on netflix in the digger, the effort to make everything idiot proof has to stop somewhere surely

Unfortunately, being struck by a vehicle is one of the top three causes of worksite injuries and fatalities in the industry, so safety devices are still something which are a valuable support for operators to avoid that figure going up rather than down. The other factor is insurance premiums (these get less expensive when such software is available) and also avoiding fines from HSE, which can run into the hundreds of thousands depending on the incident. Devices like cameras and radar are meant to ensure such issues are avoided rather than because no one believes that an experienced workforce and operators aren't capable of being safe themselves.