Qualifications/NVQ - JD450 On a Rampage.....

Bri963

Bri963

Well-known member
Sorry, Gra, doesn't say it all at all. I've heard similar story's over the years and the only "CPCS trainer" I know of that couldn't operate turned out not to be a CPCS trainer. I have no axe to grind for or against any of these organisations, apart from expense, but in my experience to become a boney fido CPCS trainer this side of the country is not easy, and definitely isn't cheap. I've met over a dozen trainers and assessors and every one could operate. It seems a bit of bad luck coming across three at once Who can’t operate.
 
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Brendan

Well-known member
Other thing was the amount of dodgy assessors selling tickets to people with zero to little experience
 
Bri963

Bri963

Well-known member
Wish we could say that doesn’t happen. That’s individuals rather than organisations.
 
Randla

Randla

Interloper
Sorry, Gra, doesn't say it all at all. I've heard similar story's over the years and the only "CPCS trainer" I know of that couldn't operate turned out not to be a CPCS trainer. I have no axe to grind for or against any of these organisations, apart from expense, but in my experience to become a boney fido CPCS trainer this side of the country is not easy, and definitely isn't cheap. I've met over a dozen trainers and assessors and every one could operate. It seems a bit of bad luck coming across three at once.
Sorry Bri, I'm going to dig in here (pun intended). Over the course of three days in 2016 - I can give you the dates if you want - at least 5 trainers lost their NPORS tickets for the reasons I've described. I witnessed it, the director of the training centre witnessed it, as did an NPORS Director, his training specialist and the editor of a well-known trade magazine; all of who were watching in increasing disbelief.

Like you, I've no axe to grind and, indeed, CPCS did finally show interest. At the time, however, it was acknowledged that it was not a requirement that a CPCS assessor needed to demonstrate practical competence on the machines that they were checking operators on. The now retired health and safety director of one of the big 5 contractors told me directly in a phone call that he actually preferred CPCS for this reason. His logic was that trainers train and assessors, well, assess; and it's best to keep the two disciplines separate to ensure no conflict of interest.

Robert
 
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Brendan

Well-known member
The now retired health and safety director of one of the big 5 contractors told me directly in a phone call that he actually preferred CPCS for this reason. His logic was that trainers train and assessors, well, assess; and it's best to keep the two disciplines separate to ensure no conflict of interest.

Robert
This is just as bad, as the younger bco and engineers who know anything outside of what their book tells them.

Assessors should have first hand practical experience on what ever the topic is, not saying they should be able to grade a field within 10mm but at least be able to operate whatever machinery beyond the basics of the tests
 
doobin

doobin

Well-known member
Absolutely. It would be crazy to have a driving instructor take a HGV student out on a test when he only held an automatic car license.
Or does that happen too??
 
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Brendan

Well-known member
Absolutely. It would be crazy to have a driving instructor take a HGV student out on a test when he only held an automatic car license.
Or does that happen too??
I'm sure they have to pass an enhanced exam
 
Bri963

Bri963

Well-known member
Sorry Bri, I'm going to dig in here (pun intended). Over the course of three days in 2016 - I can give you the dates if you want - at least 5 trainers lost their NPORS tickets for the reasons I've described. I witnessed it, the director of the training centre witnessed it, as did an NPORS Director, his training specialist and the editor of a well-known trade magazine; all of who were watching in increasing disbelief.

Like you, I've no axe to grind and, indeed, CPCS did finally show interest. At the time, however, it was acknowledged that it was not a requirement that a CPCS assessor needed to demonstrate practical competence on the machines that they were checking operators on. The now retired health and safety director of one of the big 5 contractors told me directly in a phone call that he actually preferred CPCS for this reason. His logic was that trainers train and assessors, well, assess; and it's best to keep the two disciplines separate to ensure no conflict of interest.

Robert
Not shooting the reporter here, Robert, as you are saying what you saw, but something must have happened between 2010, when I did the CPCS trainers course, and 2016. When I did it, to be an assessor you had to jump the same hoops as a trainer (minus the trainer training),part of which was a practical test on each category you wanted on your assessor’s or trainer’s ticket, and it isn’t a test you can pass if you can’t operate to a reasonable level. You had to be tested by a tester, but also there had to be a moderator present. Think that bit may have changed now. Whatever, all of CPCS operator, trainer, assessor/tester requirements are written out on their website, so there’s no ambiguity about what should have happened for these guys to be qualified, and certainly in earlier years there were no short cuts.

I can’t help thinking there’s more (or less) to this. Can’t understand why three guys who couldn’t operate decided to put themselves in the firing line like this. Because however you spin it NPORS don’t come out of it very well if if 3 out of 4 of their trainers/testers couldn’t operate, and they only discovered this at a high-profile event? Makes me wonder if they just made up some ordinary ticket holders to trainers and realised they’d shot themselves in the foot, but that’s speculation from a distance and no-one would be shouting if it was the case. NPORS should certainly have done a bit more Due diligence beforehand rather than shutting the stable door after the event. And if I’m reading correctly, these guys were there as NPORS assessors or trainers.

I’ll be the first to admit that I would be an embarrassment on a tiltrotator at this stage, but then I’m not going to be training or assessing anyone. But this whole saga does put meat behind Rory’s ideas, if it does nothing else, and I’ve got bloody writer’s cramp.
 
Randla

Randla

Interloper
Because however you spin it NPORS don’t come out of it very well if if 3 out of 4 of their trainers/testers couldn’t operate, and they only discovered this at a high-profile event?

NPORS should certainly have done a bit more Due diligence beforehand rather than shutting the stable door after the event. And if I’m reading correctly, these guys were there as NPORS assessors or trainers.

I’ll be the first to admit that I would be an embarrassment on a tiltrotator at this stage, but then I’m not going to be training or assessing anyone. But this whole saga does put meat behind Rory’s ideas, if it does nothing else, and I’ve got bloody writer’s cramp.
I wouldn't disagree with any of this, Bri.

On subsequent courses the practical element was made clear beforehand and there were no reoccurrences, but my takeaway is how someone can properly understand and assess someone else's competence in a particular task if they can't do it themselves is beyond me. I understand the need to seperate training and testing - it's almost the equivalent of marking your own coursework, but there's a procedural fix for that.

Nobody comes out of this particularly well. NPORS shouldn't have ported the guys across without checking. CPCS (no - ALL assessors) should be practically competent and, as Rory in effect pointed out at the start, without grassroots input and influence the industry will end up with another camel.

Robert
 
Bri963

Bri963

Well-known member
Aye, too many camels in this industry. Sounds like you set out with good intentions though. I think all of these carding bodies have got a long way to go responding to what the industry needs rather than trying to dictate their view of how it should be.
 
J

Jimoz

Well-known member
What's going on there who's calling who out? My saw not got a hoover on today but softwood spindles and oak handrails. Breathe it in son good for you lol
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
does this knob realise that those multiple sockets're usually used to save unplugging tools all the time when using multiple m/cs .... only an issue if all are run together .. assuming of course that the draw exceeds the main sockets capacity rating ... at which point the breaker trips out in the box .... 'kin know nothing jobsworth :mad: as usual ... lions led by donkeys
 
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