Oxy propane

[AHPP]

I want a torch for the usual, stuck nuts, bit of bending, bit of cutting. Fairly light duty. I already have propane on hand for the kitchen stove so oxy propane seemed logical. Why is acetylene so much more common? It would mean the inconvenience of an extra bottle but I’ll do it if there’s good reason.

Second thing. Whether I go propane or acetylene, are burning sets normally OK to buy second hand (my usual preference) or are they one of those things where you don’t f**k around and you pay a shop?

 

[doobin]

I want a torch for the usual, stuck nuts, bit of bending, bit of cutting. Fairly light duty. I already have propane on hand for the kitchen stove so oxy propane seemed logical. Why is acetylene so much more common? It would mean the inconvenience of an extra bottle but I’ll do it if there’s good reason.

Second thing. Whether I go propane or acetylene, are burning sets normally OK to buy second hand (my usual preference) or are they one of those things where you don’t f**k around and you pay a shop?

Don't mess about. Propane nozzles etc are different than acetylene- you don't want a home brew kit cobbled together with some right and some wrong nozzles and perished hoses with no flashback arrestors.

Go new, but don't buy a trolley. All the bottle trolleys you can buy are not worth a wank and will fold in half without the bottle, never mind with it on. Did you see the version I built when you were here? It'll outlast my great grandkids and is a simple design you can make in a couple of hours with some steel, studding, sack barrow wheels and Vespa grips (yuck).

Propane is great for heating and brazing, OK for cutting but no use for welding. It's far safer and easier to store than acetylene. It's a bit cheaper but what you save in fuel you will spend on more oxygen so swings and roundabouts. So long as you don't want to try gas welding it'll do you just fine.

 

[AHPP]

Don't mess about. Propane nozzles etc are different than acetylene- you don't want a home brew kit cobbled together with some right and some wrong nozzles and perished hoses with no flashback arrestors.

Go new, but don't buy a trolley. All the bottle trolleys you can buy are not worth a wank and will fold in half without the bottle, never mind with it on. Did you see the version I built when you were here? It'll outlast my great grandkids and is a simple design you can make in a couple of hours with some steel, studding, sack barrow wheels and Vespa grips (yuck).

Propane is great for heating and brazing, OK for cutting but no use for welding. It's far safer and easier to store than acetylene. It's a bit cheaper but what you save in fuel you will spend on more oxygen so swings and roundabouts. So long as you don't want to try gas welding it'll do you just fine.

I just googled the nozzle differences and discovered just about everything is different. Materials in the regulator internals etc.

Don’t recall your trolley but if it’s as heavily built as your man basket, I can imagine it’ll outlive the cockroaches. Building a bottle cart is a rite of passage I suppose I should undertake. Never needed bottles before. Only have a stick welder.

Any brands/suppliers to recommend or warn against?

 

[doobin]

I just googled the nozzle differences and discovered just about everything is different. Materials in the regulator internals etc.

Don’t recall your trolley but if it’s as heavily built as your man basket, I can imagine it’ll outlive the cockroaches. Building a bottle cart is a rite of passage I suppose I should undertake. Never needed bottles before. Only have a stick welder.

Any brands/suppliers to recommend or warn against?

For bottles, SGS or Hobbyweld 'rent free' bottles are best value for occasional users. Usually your local motor factors will be a supplier for one or the other.

https://www.metalfabsupplies.co.uk for gas kits and consumables.

 

[AHPP]

What’s the craic with oxygen bottle rent? If I buy a bottle from Facebook and then present it to a shop to fill it, will they want to see paperwork? I think propane is meant to be like that but the reality is nobody cares.

 

[Left hooker]

What’s the craic with oxygen bottle rent? If I buy a bottle from Facebook and then present it to a shop to fill it, will they want to see paperwork? I think propane is meant to be like that but the reality is nobody cares.

B.o.c cares

 

[AHPP]

B.o.c cares

But does anyone more immediate and proximate care? Will I be able to get refills?

 

[Smiffy]

But does anyone more immediate and proximate care? Will I be able to get refills?

I think it's harder with companies like boc. You need an account and to pay a rental charge on the bottle.

 

[AHPP]

I think it's harder with companies like boc. You need an account and to pay a rental charge on the bottle.

Is there always somewhere to get a fill though or do you actually end up stuck?

 

[Smiffy]

Is there always somewhere to get a fill though or do you actually end up stuck?

I don't know about other parts of the country but there is a big boc place in Crawley with all sorts of different gasses available. Used to be like a petrol station with with a canopy you pull under swap bottles go in shop but the last time I actually went in there was 20 years ago, probably a bit more security now

 

[Shovelhands]

Is there always somewhere to get a fill though or do you actually end up stuck?

You end up stuck, they tag the bottles.
Say you know a guy who has several on account, he changes the bottle for you, it gets tagged, he gets charged on another bottle !

 

[doobin]

What’s the craic with oxygen bottle rent? If I buy a bottle from Facebook and then present it to a shop to fill it, will they want to see paperwork? I think propane is meant to be like that but the reality is nobody cares.

Rent free bottles, like I said.

SGS Gases | We stock a wide range of rent free welding gases

We stock a wide range of rent free welding gases on SGS Gases…

www.sgsgases.co.uk

 

[AHPP]

Yes yes. Exploring all avenues. Rent free does seem the way though. I assume the likes of BOC are cheaper gas but make money on bottle rental?

 

[V8Druid]

What’s the craic with oxygen bottle rent? If I buy a bottle from Facebook and then present it to a shop to fill it, will they want to see paperwork? I think propane is meant to be like that but the reality is nobody cares.

DO NOT even go there
like Doob says go rent free .. bit dearer on the gas but B O C charge like wounded rhinos ...
SGS, etc. do not do DA (dissolved acetylene) ...
so if gas welding is a must you will have no alternative other than renting from one of the main players

I was an agent for B O C for over twenty years

 

[V8Druid]

B.o.c cares

yeh cares about recovering bottles that no one can ever own ... big fines can be had

 

[V8Druid]

You end up stuck, they tag the bottles.
Say you know a guy who has several on account, he changes the bottle for you, it gets tagged, he gets charged on another bottle !

and will have to account for how he came by it ... B O C have tightened up on cylinders massively since 2011 ... at that time they had absolutely no idea how many they actually had .. .. and their paperwork was utter crap

B O C started bar coding the neck collars in 2010/11 ... before that there was virtually no way of ID-ing single bottles and it was easy enough to get someone else to swap you a full for an empty on their A/c ... it is possible to swap the collars over - if you now how and have someone willing to 'participate'

IIRC they have also changed the configuration on DA cylinders .... but having just tried to suss that on google i draw a blank ..
used to be K, M & J for portapacks then D, F, G, H ..
H was the biggest, and fabricated ... D was about half that size and F & G , with D were cast / spun steel and bloody heavy.

 

[AHPP]

Now that's the sort of inside scoop I was after.

 

[Gecko]

Don't mess about. Propane nozzles etc are different than acetylene- you don't want a home brew kit cobbled together with some right and some wrong nozzles and perished hoses with no flashback arrestors.

Interesting to read that - when I set up mine, there were toy torches and the CIG Comet3. For welding, there were two mixers available - Acet and Acet/LPG. I opted for the Acet/LPG and have run either fuel without making any other changes (reg pressure obviously).
LPG does produce less heat, so going up a tip size may be necessary. Cutting is the same, but to a lesser extent.

Probably the decision maker is what the rest of your equipment looks like - I do most (all?) of my welding with MIG or stick (TIG is only waiting on another bottle of gas), most of the cutting with plasma which leaves oxy for heating.

As @doobin says, if you buy secondhand, budget for new hoses and a pair of arrestors.

 

[Shovelhands]

and will have to account for how he came by it ... B O C have tightened up on cylinders massively since 2011 ... at that time they had absolutely no idea how many they actually had .. .. and their paperwork was utter crap

B O C started bar coding the neck collars in 2010/11 ... before that there was virtually no way of ID-ing single bottles and it was easy enough to get someone else to swap you a full for an empty on their A/c ... it is possible to swap the collars over - if you now how and have someone willing to 'participate'

IIRC they have also changed the configuration on DA cylinders .... but having just tried to suss that on google i draw a blank ..
used to be K, M & J for portapacks then D, F, G, H ..
H was the biggest, and fabricated ... D was about half that size and F & G , with D were cast / spun steel and bloody heavy.

The question is, are B O C better off now all the small users have stopped using their products and all the missing bottles have gone in a frag or were they actually making more money in the good old days of the Wild West?

 

[Smiffy]

The question is, are B O C better off now all the small users have stopped using their products and all the missing bottles have gone in a frag or were they actually making more money in the good old days of the Wild West?

Probably such a small part of there business its unnoticeable.