OOPS

[JD450A]

Blue lorry on slipway, Blue/White Scratches on back right of trailer. Draw your own conclusions.

A love tap with the tractor at 50k (31mph),and lorry at 56mph is a speed difference of only 25mph.... But I bet it's enough to upset the motion of a trailer and cause it to do some funky s**t to the drawing vehicle. You've only got to push the trailer forward and you could easily jack knife the tractor and trailer.

 

[GazCro]

Blue lorry on slipway, Blue/White Scratches on back right of trailer. Draw your own conclusions.

A love tap with the tractor at 50k (31mph),and lorry at 56mph is a speed difference of only 25mph.... But I bet it's enough to upset the motion of a trailer and cause it to do some funky s**t to the drawing vehicle. You've only got to push the trailer forward and you could easily jack knife the tractor and trailer.

Yeah getting a push on trailer be deffo upsetting especially if it's taking you 25mph faster than you're vehicle wants to travel. Surprising it wasn't a far worse outcome tbh.

 

[Lancs Lad]

I happen to know there was two full sprinters of school kids that pulled up sharpish to avoid the JD as it flew across the central res into their side... apparently shaken up isn't the word... One VERY lucky tractor driver.
Like you say still can't believe how good shape trac and trailer in.

 

[Mark]

and all the s**t clearing out the way

Pushing steel plates under it would help as well, I recovered a 40 ton digger of ours that was in a similar position except the engine was a none runner as well.

 

[Jimoz]

Would they ever attempt to see if tracy was overweight or not because wasn't his fault? I always wondered if you had a bump would they try to weigh everything which WAS on your truck.
I did 3 trips to northampton to pick up some bricks a year or 2 ago which could have been done in 2 loads. Obviously I was using the M1 though so didn't fancy either the chance of a pull in my 20+ year old truck or having a blow out and killing some fucker and be found to be criminally liable.

 

[doobin]

Tallking of retarded lorry drivers- how does a PSV driver get this wrong? Lucky no fatalities!

Winchester school bus bridge crash leaves children injured

Pupils say they started screaming when the double-decker hit a railway bridge in Winchester.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[JD450A]

Would they ever attempt to see if tracy was overweight or not because wasn't his fault? I always wondered if you had a bump would they try to weigh everything which WAS on your truck.
I did 3 trips to northampton to pick up some bricks a year or 2 ago which could have been done in 2 loads. Obviously I was using the M1 though so didn't fancy either the chance of a pull in my 20+ year old truck or having a blow out and killing some fucker and be found to be criminally liable.

Depends on scale of accident.

Bath Tipper accident, from memory it was all gathered up methodically and weighed from what I was told at the time.

 

[pettsy]

Tallking of retarded lorry drivers- how does a PSV driver get this wrong? Lucky no fatalities!

Winchester school bus bridge crash leaves children injured

Pupils say they started screaming when the double-decker hit a railway bridge in Winchester.

www.bbc.co.uk

As a guess, normally drives single decks and not thinking what he/she was driving or sent on road diversion. No excuse but familiarity of a route

 

[Lancs Lad]

Depends on scale of accident.

Bath Tipper accident, from memory it was all gathered up methodically and weighed from what I was told at the time.

Bath Tipper one was interesting I read up on it...struck me how thorough they were ...the "ahh it'll be re reet" attitude I've had a lot ...didn't seem so clever

 

[JD450A]

Bath Tipper one was interesting I read up on it...struck me how thorough they were ...the "ahh it'll be re reet" attitude I've had a lot ...didn't seem so clever

I still don't think the true cause was hit.

Not blaming the Lad, but that year rules had changed to allow a person with a manual car license to train and pass on a automatic lorry, and be given a HGV license to drive a manual truck! Person unskilled on a 4x4 box, hauling overweight with a defective lorry...... Perfect storm IMHO!

 

[Smiffy]

I still don't think the true cause was hit.

Not blaming the Lad, but that year rules had changed to allow a person with a manual car license to train and pass on a automatic lorry, and be given a HGV license to drive a manual truck! Person unskilled on a 4x4 box, hauling overweight with a defective lorry...... Perfect storm IMHO!

I don't think the gearbox is that bigger problem as tbh even if you passed in a 4 over 4 it takes more than the week of instruction to fully come to grips with them so don't think he was really under that greater disadvantage than someone who passed before the change
Depending on the age of lorry modern 4 over 4 boxes are very easy to drive and the engines are tolerant of mistakes

 

[Canal Navvy]

I still don't think the true cause was hit.

Not blaming the Lad, but that year rules had changed to allow a person with a manual car license to train and pass on a automatic lorry, and be given a HGV license to drive a manual truck! Person unskilled on a 4x4 box, hauling overweight with a defective lorry...... Perfect storm IMHO!

I suspect that new drivers are taught to rely on service brakes too much.
I've been told that in the past new drivers were instructed by the old hands in hill descents ....... brake hard before the bends, use engine braking to help hold it back and above else try to keep the brakes cool.
The hill down from the racecourse into Bath is a nasty deceptive one too ........ only place i've ever had brake fade on the Land Rover

 

[V8Druid]

I suspect that new drivers are taught to rely on service brakes too much.
I've been told that in the past new drivers were instructed by the old hands in hill descents ....... brake hard before the bends, use engine braking to help hold it back and above else try to keep the brakes cool.
The hill down from the racecourse into Bath is a nasty deceptive one too ........ only place i've ever had brake fade on the Land Rover

Absolutely .... we've a nigh on 4 mile descent round here and any 'heavy' relying on just brakes has run out of 'em long before the bottom is reached ... old saying was " never come down in a higher gear than you go up in " certainly holds good on the Black Rock descent .. low cog and intermittent braking to keep yer speed in check, whilst allowing the brakes to cool between app.s .... 46t of 8 wheeled TMS475LP Grove would've been out of brakes 'bout 25% of the way down, on just brakes ... as would all my other cranes ... axle loads to the limits on 'em, 24/7/365 .....

......and yeh that hill into Bath is some hill, much like our Black Rock .... a skilled descent required to reach the bottom in one piece and under full control

 

[V8Druid]

Tallking of retarded lorry drivers- how does a PSV driver get this wrong? Lucky no fatalities!

Winchester school bus bridge crash leaves children injured

Pupils say they started screaming when the double-decker hit a railway bridge in Winchester.

www.bbc.co.uk

As a guess, normally drives single decks and not thinking what he/she was driving or sent on road diversion. No excuse but familiarity of a route

most 'bus fleets' are singles with the odd 'decker' chucked in..... dare say with social distancing, etc. 'deckers' are getting used a hell of a lot more ATM ..... very easy to 'forget' you'm in one ..... we used to service the Abergavenny and Brecon fleets, for Red & White ... 14 singles and two 'deckers' ... very easy to 'forget' ... the 'cabs' were all much of a muchness - clonker boxes and 95% laid out the same
My brother worked for Red & White for years as a fitter ... Monmouth depot, August bank holiday Monday maaaaany years ago ... came out the depot on a road test .. looked left up the main st ... ram packed, swung right two hundred yards later he's 10 ft through Monnow Arch, when the sound of breaking glass and crunching reminded him he was in a decker .... only one of the 21 on fleet at that depot ...... easy done ....... and he wasn't the first to try getting through the arch ..... was a routine through route for singles

 

[JD450A]

Depending on the age of lorry modern 4 over 4 boxes are very easy to drive and the engines are tolerant of mistakes

Yes, but you need to be using them and your engine breaking to even have a chance of a downshift if your loosing control on a hill.

"I tried the handbrake. I put it on and nothing. I tried putting the lorry into third gear to try and get the engine to slow it down."

IMHE you need to be in a low gear at the start of a hill to have a cats chance in hell of a smooth downshift. Don't get me wrong for a second, that lad was a passenger and he was going to wind up crashing into something regardless, the situation was the fault of those instructing him, not his own..... But would a 10mph difference in speed of saved lives? I reckon so, and IMHO the blame rests with DVSA for the reduction in requirements to pass a test on that!

Most HGV drivers learn in a week on a half loaded wagon. Before the rules changed (to make it easier and encourage more into the industry I might add) that HAD to be done on a lorry with range change or a splitter. The lad had just passed his C+E so he obviously was'nt a poor driver and had had likely two weeks of one to one training..... But if he hadn't been taught to drop gears before a hill then he's not going to know!

Ultimately it's one to learn from and without a doubt the right people where punished! But I'm not convinced all the lessons where learned. Similar story to the Bridge/Lowloader/Hard Shoulder...... Very Quiet on that but i've noticed alot more height restriction signs on footways since

 

[Smiffy]

Yes, but you need to be using them and your engine breaking to even have a chance of a downshift if your loosing control on a hill.

"I tried the handbrake. I put it on and nothing. I tried putting the lorry into third gear to try and get the engine to slow it down."

IMHE you need to be in a low gear at the start of a hill to have a cats chance in hell of a smooth downshift. Don't get me wrong for a second, that lad was a passenger and he was going to wind up crashing into something regardless, the situation was the fault of those instructing him, not his own..... But would a 10mph difference in speed of saved lives? I reckon so, and IMHO the blame rests with DVSA for the reduction in requirements to pass a test on that!

Most HGV drivers learn in a week on a half loaded wagon. Before the rules changed (to make it easier and encourage more into the industry I might add) that HAD to be done on a lorry with range change or a splitter. The lad had just passed his C+E so he obviously was'nt a poor driver and had had likely two weeks of one to one training..... But if he hadn't been taught to drop gears before a hill then he's not going to know!

Ultimately it's one to learn from and without a doubt the right people where punished! But I'm not convinced all the lessons where learned. Similar story to the Bridge/Lowloader/Hard Shoulder...... Very Quiet on that but i've noticed alot more height restriction signs on footways since

But I think someone older would take more caution than someone younger regardless of experience
And it depends on the wagon I find ivecos actually stop very well where as daf don't slow as well
And whilst the downshift may not be smooth but everything I've driven will go into gear if you force it only exception being the range won't flick down if you aren't slow enough
Regardless I was always taught that brakes are for stopping and engine breaking is for allowing down in most circumstances
It amazes me how following people in both cars and lorry's the constant glare of the break lights when there is no need

 

[Charlie]

Regardless I was always taught that brakes are for stopping and engine breaking is for allowing down in most circumstances

So was I and most I know but a mates daughter passed her driving test last year and was taught specifically not to use the engine for breaking. Reason was break pads can be easily changed when worn but clutch plates were harder and more expensive to change so wear out the break pads.

 

[Gecko]

pads can be easily changed when worn but clutch plates were harder and more expensive to change so wear out the break pads.

I'd heard that and chose to ignore it.
My daily driver used to be a S2a landy. After 150k miles, I sheared a layshaft and the box had to come out. Obviously I checked the clutch while I was in there.
A micrometer showed the friction disc was still slightly thicker than factory spec.
Changing gears doesn't wear clutches, but slipping the clutch will. If you can drive a crash box, you can certainly change gears without causing appreciable wear.

 

[Jimoz]

As above I think people are taught to not rely on brakes in cars now. No idea about hgv. I reckon people following be must wonder if brakes are out sometimes always use engine or coast up to lights if I see red from ages away.

 

[Smiffy]

So was I and most I know but a mates daughter passed her driving test last year and was taught specifically not to use the engine for breaking. Reason was break pads can be easily changed when worn but clutch plates were harder and more expensive to change so wear out the break pads.

I think bits just a case of making the test easier
As if the gear change is smooth then there should be no wear atall
I did my hgv c and c+e in autos and the instructor had a real problem with me using the exhaust break don't know why
Horrible nasty things to drive with no feeling