Gunns Contractors Ltd

doobin

doobin

Well-known member
he issue of a latching auxiliary to run a flail is that it cannot be done through our controller for the simple reason is that it's dangerous and breaches the machine control protocols. It is possible to put a flail on a latching button in the same way that you can jam a stick between the car seat and the accelerator pedal on a long drive on the motorway.:unsure: These days we have radar controlled adaptive cruise control for cars but I don't (yet) have an analogous solution for tilties.

I'm sure Eddie used to go on abotu how good it was having a latching control on his flail?
 
Engcon UK

Engcon UK

The Noble Art of Digging
I'm sure Eddie used to go on abotu how good it was having a latching control on his flail?
'Believe he did, Doobin (and others besides). One could make an argument (although I wouldn't choose to) for having an on/off latching switch on a flail mounted on a tractor or directly to the dipper in that the business end is generally pointing in a safe direction - i.e. groundwards. Fit a tilty and all of that goes out of the window - it's the equivalent of waving a handheld circular saw around at a drinks party:eek::poop:

There is nothing to stop Eddie (or Ollie, for that matter) fitting a latching button for a flail on their setup, but as a manufacturer I'm not about to. It's the same reason Audi won't sell me a stick to wedge the throttle open, or a seatbelt buckle to jam in the lock so that I don't have to listen to the nagging beep when I can't be bothered to belt up on the way to the pub.:mad::mad:
 
JD450A

JD450A

Feral as Fk 🐾
There is nothing to stop Eddie (or Ollie, for that matter) fitting a latching button for a flail on their setup, but as a manufacturer I'm not about to. It's the same reason Audi won't sell me a stick to wedge the throttle open, or a seatbelt buckle to jam in the lock so that I don't have to listen to the nagging beep when I can't be bothered to belt up on the way to the pub.:mad::mad:
Your behind the curve, Caterpillar will sell you a machine that will track it'self along :ROFLMAO:
 
Engcon UK

Engcon UK

The Noble Art of Digging
I'm sure Eddie used to go on abotu how good it was having a latching control on his flail?
A CLARIFICATION (sorry for shouting :):):);))

I was just chatting to Ollie Kitchin about this and a bit more detail might be helpful.

Our safety protocols basically state that if you take your hands off the joysticks then everything must stop. Clearly, a latching function running through our system would breach these and that's why we don't do it. However, if you take the tilty off to run a flail then it can be done as long as there is an existing machine function which fires up the hammer circuit from a button. Most diggers have this and we can change this button function when we fit our joysticks so that it latches when the tilty is dropped off - it just runs through the existing digger system.

In the event that there isn't a hammer button present, we can add a separate latching circuit to operate when the tilty isn't present. It's a bit more wiring and valve work, but it can be done. In Ollie's case - sorry JCB:):):) - (Gunn, that is, not Kitchin BTW) we'll look at what he's got and make it work.

HTH
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
A CLARIFICATION (sorry for shouting :):):);))

I was just chatting to Ollie Kitchin about this and a bit more detail might be helpful.

Our safety protocols basically state that if you take your hands off the joysticks then everything must stop. Clearly, a latching function running through our system would breach these and that's why we don't do it. However, if you take the tilty off to run a flail then it can be done as long as there is an existing machine function which fires up the hammer circuit from a button. Most diggers have this and we can change this button function when we fit our joysticks so that it latches when the tilty is dropped off - it just runs through the existing digger system.

In the event that there isn't a hammer button present, we can add a separate latching circuit to operate when the tilty isn't present. It's a bit more wiring and valve work, but it can be done. In Ollie's case - sorry JCB:):):) - (Gunn, that is, not Kitchin BTW) we'll look at what he's got and make it work.

HTH

time to fit them sticks with bio sensors then Robert ;) .... lift yer sweaty mitts and everything - including latched circuits'd stop (y):cool: ... job for the design office next year :giggle::giggle::p
 
F

fred

Well-known member
could the flail flow be routed to a foot pedal, I'm with engcon on this one. Flail is a very dangerous piece of kit and if the op had a medical event that left him incapacitated I wouldn't want that flail still going.
 
K

Komatsu

Well-known member
could the flail flow be routed to a foot pedal, I'm with engcon on this one. Flail is a very dangerous piece of kit and if the op had a medical event that left him incapacitated I wouldn't want that flail still going.
Sounds like you haven’t you haven’t had to do a full shift with your finger holding a button down or foot on a pedal??....after 20/30 minutes it exteremly uncomfortable and faced with a 12 hour shift, nite after nite, not really the best way to go?...because by the same token, when was the last time your saw a tractor drive a fail with his hand on a lever to keep it the fail going?.... It also sounds like you’d be doing the job without the right guarding on the machine??....
 
CPS

CPS

Well-known member
Sounds like you haven’t you haven’t had to do a full shift with your finger holding a button down or foot on a pedal??....after 20/30 minutes it exteremly uncomfortable and faced with a 12 hour shift, nite after nite, not really the best way to go?...because by the same token, when was the last time your saw a tractor drive a fail with his hand on a lever to keep it the fail going?.... It also sounds like you’d be doing the job without the right guarding on the machine??....
Just as a side note. The Rototilt ICS system has a hold function built in to the Aux circuit. It is variable and holds the flow where ever you set it. It has the same function for the hammer line when the tiltrotator is removed. Ideal for flails etc.
I don't see it as a massive problem as once the safety lever is activated it cuts out both the machine and ICS. It is an option on most newer machines to have a constant flow button, so it must fall well with CE and other directives.
 
K

Komatsu

Well-known member
time to fit them sticks with bio sensors then Robert ;) .... lift yer sweaty mitts and everything - including latched circuits'd stop (y):cool: ... job for the design office next year :giggle::giggle::p
John Craig did that to Eddies Liebherr 3 years ago🙂, a great way to go.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
John Craig did that to Eddies Liebherr 3 years ago🙂, a great way to go.
what bio-metric recognition on the sticks? :unsure::oops:
only issue'd be with those hand rests, if your hands didn't fall away, if you passed out or had a similar problem?:confused:
 
Grahams

Grahams

Don't complain - suggest what's better
I can happily run my rotary sieve on a foot peddle all day. occasionally had hire machines that the auxiliary worked on rocker switch. Ended up with real hand pain. Wouldn’t want to run something continuously day after day on a rocker you had to hold.
Definitely won’t be getting a Liebherr. Once we start we don’t stop all day, eat and drink whilst sieve is going as it only requires minor adjustments as it empties.
Graham
 
M

Monkeybusiness

Well-known member
It almost seems as though mitigating a high risk of harm hazard (inadvertently mulching oneself) potentially creates a perceived lower risk of harm hazard (rsi, carpal tunnel syndrome, uncomfortable working environment etc). I’d imagine the chances of lost time injury/claims against employers etc are more likely with the latter (as daft as that sounds). Nobody is likely to go to prison for it though!
 
K

Komatsu

Well-known member
what bio-metric recognition on the sticks? :unsure::oops:
only issue'd be with those hand rests, if your hands didn't fall away, if you passed out or had a similar problem?:confused:
What John did was transfer the Liebherr stystem, into the L8 joysticks, so basically the machine the machine requires a firm grip on the levers or it won’t rev up. That technology could then be utilised in conjunction with a latching button easily, so you have to grip it for it to work, placing your hand lightly on them won’t work.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
What John did was transfer the Liebherr stystem, into the L8 joysticks, so basically the machine the machine requires a firm grip on the levers or it won’t rev up. That technology could then be utilised in conjunction with a latching button easily, so you have to grip it for it to work, placing your hand lightly on them won’t work.


so how firm is FIRM Ollie ? :unsure:
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Imagine my hands round your neck telling you to stop asking stupid questions!!😱🤣🤣...that FIRM......just how you’d normally hold them, and if it didn’t kick in, squeeze a bit harder.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: ..... normal sort of grip then :LOL::unsure: ...... just wondered :rolleyes:
 
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