Fancy a change of career with Engcon?

[Smiffy]

Yes I have 204 with grab, look at the pic and see the ram poking out the side it is a tad under 300mm meaning a 600 bucket just clears it.

https://www.planttalk.co.uk/attachments/20180908_171614-jpg.1131/

If you where desperate for the depth couldnt an offset bucket be made just have the cheeks welded on to a trenching bucket slightly to the left ??

 

[fred]

You could but I’m not really fussed as I dig everything 600.

It’s worth noting if your thinking of going engcon and do lots of drainage for example you would have to drop the engcon off while you did it

 

[JD450A]

bugger the accent ...... just buy him a better phone a conversation with Rory is like audible 'join the dots' ..... with the most frequent comment being " ****ing phone" ...... you need to get him to call you @Engcon UK / Robert and sample his sales patter for yourself ..... he could sell Pat Bullcock an Engcon

It automatically bleeps the swearing, unlike the computer, f****ng thing.

Tiltys are marmite and the costs are so varied that saying the cost of ownership is X per hour is abit like saying you can have a brand new mecalac for X per hour..... as with most machines nowerdays the attachments are what makes the kit more versatile and whilst most will use a tilty 100% of the time you inevitably wind up with more and more attachments that are used a fraction of that..... Brush, Grab, Tarmac Cutter, Rake, Beam.... that's another six grand in those three items really. soon add's up.

It's interesting the way the market seems to be leading, as we seem to be heading further towards two types of operator.... those with GPS skill which can follow a screen and work a machine for a higher rate. And those who can visualise and complete smaller jobs off the back of a fag packet as has happened for many years. The Low paid, Low Skilled Numpty's days seem to be heading to there timely end (Good riddance)..... it's good news eitherway as both types are well placed to take full advantage of a tilt rotator.

R.e Digging at 600mm...... Definitely not for me and i'd soon get A) f***ed off with it, And B) have to revert to manual with pins if that was the case, lot of money being wasted particularly if your laying cables or pipe under 6' in a 600 wide trench.

 

[Antony Holmes]

You could but I’m not really fussed as I dig everything 600.

It’s worth noting if your thinking of going engcon and do lots of drainage for example you would have to drop the engcon off while you did it

i have been looking at a deep profile bucket for narrow drains but was quoted £700 for a bucket and figured i am not paying for the gravel

 

[TiltyShaun]

I think we should start a new thread. Tilty.....what is in it for the end user?

 

[JD450A]

I think we should start a new thread. Tilty.....what is in it for the end user?

Efficiency and time/cost savings if it's done correctly..... If done poorly additional costs, higher rates of machine damage and Inefficient working practices.

All in the hands of the end user.

 

[Antony Holmes]

I think we should start a new thread. Tilty.....what is in it for the end user?

good idea lots i think
the more interesting question is what is it for the plant men

 

[fred]

i have been looking at a deep profile bucket for narrow drains but was quoted £700 for a bucket and figured i am not paying for the gravel

Have a look at the 700mm deep ‘virgin’ buckets they use for laying the fibre cable. Less spoil to shift etc

 

[fred]

 

[Engcon UK]

You won’t get anything less than a 600 to go in the trench because of the ram sticking out to one side.

I’ll take a pic when I’m onsite next. It’s not a massive issue to me as I just do our drainage in 600 now as we don’t do massive runs.

I think I need to correct a couple of misconceptions that are appearing and to do that we need to go back to the basics of tilty selection.

In a lot of cases, direct mounting a tilty on the end of the dipper is absolutely OK - as Fred has said. However, there are a few occasions where you will need to take it off and in these instances a so-called 'twin hitch' arrangement is the way to go. These are:

1. If you use a hammer. I know other manufacturers' advice may be different, but Engcon is crystal clear on this - do not mix a hammer and a tilty. Firstly, the combined weight of the hammer and tilty (on any size digger) will make its use uncomfortable to say the least and secondly, tilties have highly engineered proportional valves and (in many cases) expensive electronic circuitry in them and a hammer will do them no good whatsoever. If you do, you will invalidate your (Engcon) warranty.
2. If you want to do narrow, deep trenching. As Fred points out, the rams on a tilty stick out at the side and will prevent you going too deep in a narrow trench. On an EC02 twin-hitch arrangement, the top hitch is under 200mm wide and we regularly supply 9" buckets for this class of digger.
3. If you need to do a lot of buck muckshifting. A tilty isn't adding much, if any, value here. Take it off and save fuel and time.
4. If you are loading high-sided vehicles and need the extra height.
5. If you are working on the limits of the digger's performance - for example with a heavy load off to one side. Taking the tilty off will give you that extra lifting capacity.

On a mini digger, a twin hitch will add around £1000 - £1500 (depending on size and spec). On larger excavators (over 6 tonnes) you get our EC-Oil automatic hydraulic connectors for free (with DC2 controls),so you don't even have to get out of the cab to take it off. Probably around 60 - 70% of our installations are twin-hitch.

HTH,

Robert

 

[Engcon UK]

It's interesting the way the market seems to be leading, as we seem to be heading further towards two types of operator.... those with GPS skill which can follow a screen and work a machine for a higher rate. And those who can visualise and complete smaller jobs off the back of a fag packet as has happened for many years. The Low paid, Low Skilled Numpty's days seem to be heading to there timely end (Good riddance)..... it's good news eitherway as both types are well placed to take full advantage of a tilt rotator.

Agree with you to an extent here, Rory.

I don't know that the thing will swing full circle, but I am of the opinion that a skilled operator with a tilty will be able to differentiate themselves from the me-too operators and either pick up more work, get better rates, or both. One thing's for certain: trying to follow the race to the bottom with stupid, uneconomic rates for both plant and operator is never going to generate a decent pension pot. As Antony has said, his rates are coming up and his customers are appreciating his work. Both are things we need to be hearing.

 

[Engcon UK]

I will comment and say any engcon at the end of 5 years is worth a lot more than £1500

I've said this before (on the CEF), but it bears restating: WE CANNOT GET ENOUGH SECOND HAND UNITS (sorry for shouting).

For anyone that has bought a tilty from us over the last few years, we've always said that they will get a cracking trade-in deal if they want to change it and we are (collectively) now in the position where a tilty-equipped digger seems to be commanding second-hand values in excess of the sum of the parts. The same goes for the so-called entry level systems that we have promoted over the last year so so. True - higher specification machines will always get top dollar (and are a necessity if you are planning to sell the digger complete into the Scandi market), but in a lot of instances the lower-level control systems are perfectly suited to everyday tilty work and hold their value well.

 

[Hydremaduck]

@Engcon UK / Robert .... you've started something ...... had your new 'ambassador' on the bloody phone at 7.45 this morning trying to convert me to his new religion ....
he has some interesting sales patter and marketing ideas, for sure
having had a so so night, preceded by a loooong day, I wasn't the most receptive to his sales ploys, first thing today...... he does understand 'french' quite well though , cos the potential customer got the first cusses in

To be fair, its only sat reading this now that I get to put the missing pieces to the jigsaw that had me utterly confused some of the sales patter I've had the last week or so and I've already got a tiltrotator

 

[Hydremaduck]

. Nothing narrower than 600 will go in the trench once the engcon is fitted.

At this point Robert hit the reply button but having taken a deep breath was now trying to work out if the pain in my lip was from the hook or my teeth
We shall continue reading before stating the obvious. By which time I might have got this darn hook out of my lip.

 

[Hydremaduck]

OK, Fred wasn't fishing, he has a unit and I'm glad I read to the end before jumping in.

Couple of observations, bearing in mind I only have experience of bigger units on bigger machines along with what "other" users of smaller machines have mentioned in discussions. Some info also picked up via social media from our Scandinavian cousins.

Narrow trenching can still be achieved by a couple of methods. Longer toe on a bucket is an obvious one, along with having a tapered bucket if you do a lot of land drains or cabling / duct work. At the end of the day, shingle costs money as does moving material you don't need to move.
Some will say, more expense, which I will agree with BUT are you looking for reasons to NOT have a tiltrotator OR methods to allow you use of a tiltrotator and gain from its usage?
Obvious one for me is to chamfer or step the top edge of the trench. Again some will say, cannot do with a footing! OK, but footings are generally 2ft or 600mm anyway.
How many, irrespective of size of excavator regularly trenching 450mm / 18" wide need to dig deeper than a long toed bucket will allow? Are you now getting into the realms of a bastard narrow trench that a man has difficulty in working in while trying to lay pipes? and will the ground conditions allow you deeper without "stability" issues? In which case you'd probably step the excavation anyway!

Breakers under tiltrotators. I cannot argue with what Engcon / Robert has stated above BUT in the land of tiltrotators very few run a mini digger with a top hitch due too weight.
How long does it take to swap a bucket on a mini digger without a quick hitch ffs! Have your breaker as pin on, drop tiltrotator and pin breaker on.

 

[TiltyShaun]

I have a tilty directly mounted. I don't have my own breaker so I just hire in a digger and breaker kn the odd occasion that I need it. Which just happens to be this Thursday!!

 

[fred]

I have a tilty directly mounted. I don't have my own breaker so I just hire in a digger and breaker kn the odd occasion that I need it. Which just happens to be this Thursday!!

this !

 

[doobin]

i have been looking at a deep profile bucket for narrow drains but was quoted £700 for a bucket and figured i am not paying for the gravel

Isn't that the opposite of what every tilty user proclaims to be the main benefit- cost saving?

I've a drainage bucket for my mini- 4" pipe profile on the bottom and a shallow taper. It saves me a fortune on the right jobs.

Fred, I can't' believe you use a 600mm bucket for drainage. Coupled with the loss of breakout on a tilty I'd say that's a step backwards, not forwards.

I think what's needed is that cool looking Mecalac Q/H system, where there isn't any build height! Drop the tilty on a whim, and put the right bucket on.

I get what people are saying re top hitches and minis and lack of breakout. But the same goes for a tilty and lack of breakout! I have only a tilt hitch, but I'd go mad if it was stuck on the end of my dipper all day long. So I stick it under the normal quick hitch when required.

 

[CPS]

At this point Robert hit the reply button but having taken a deep breath was now trying to work out if the pain in my lip was from the hook or my teeth
We shall continue reading before stating the obvious. By which time I might have got this darn hook out of my lip.

You can dig 1500mm deep 300mm wide with an S60 tilty........ if you have the right bucket
Custom built for a customer last year

 

[fred]

Isn't that the opposite of what every tilty user proclaims to be the main benefit- cost saving?

I've a drainage bucket for my mini- 4" pipe profile on the bottom and a shallow taper. It saves me a fortune on the right jobs.

Fred, I can't' believe you use a 600mm bucket for drainage. Coupled with the loss of breakout on a tilty I'd say that's a step backwards, not forwards.

I think what's needed is that cool looking Mecalac Q/H system, where there isn't any build height! Drop the tilty on a whim, and put the right bucket on.

I get what people are saying re top hitches and minis and lack of breakout. But the same goes for a tilty and lack of breakout! I have only a tilt hitch, but I'd go mad if it was stuck on the end of my dipper all day long. So I stick it under the normal quick hitch when required.

you are absolutley right regarding adding a top hitch.

We just dont do enough drainage to warrant it on this house building game. And to be honest a 600 trench means no tightrope walking on the pipe getting the slope on it. If I was doing 100's m through fields etc then I'd drop off the tilty for sure.