Energy costs make you look at things

[fred]

hard to do on old buildings with no cavity for example, all the floors have to come up get insulated and underfloor heating fitted etc

easy enough on new builds not so much on existing stock.

I'd say heat pump + all the associated work will be best part of £30k, not many can afford it.

 

[fred]

really interesting thread .... where do I start?
@fred

as i understood it when i looked at it, maybe ten years ago, when the FIT was circa 45p/kw, 4Kw was all you were allowed as a domestic installation ... FIT is as you say a waste of time now at paltry pennies/kw so agree with the panels and batteries .... but although panel life has improved significantly in the last ten years, batteries still have finite lives and are bloody expensive
How do you get paid £21 when you've exported nothing @fred ... do you mean you ACTUALLY get paid or you have saved 21 quid?????
assume with your 'income' you are still on the circa 45p/Kw FIT?? .... not sure about the 20 years though .. that FIT disappeared ten-ish years ago and the panel life back then was ten-ish years if you were lucky so have you upgraded your panels in the interim?

if you have a bigger than 4Kw capacity roof space and stick to non grid connected set up, can you put up say 10Kw's worth of panels to feed batteries?
there was a lot of fuss about having the installation due south, but on a low pitched roof, does it really matter that much .. looked at putting 'em on our barn roof back then and would've been either SE or SW , which we were told wasn't ideal.
have been considering it for me shed roof, as and when and have been seriously considering re-orientating the whole structure to face it south to get a good 90M2 facing that way at a 12 deg. pitch ... obviously it'd need to be off grid and battery storage only.

" if the battery isnt topped up by the solar then it charges in the early hours for cheap and sometimes free if there is enough excess on the grid. " how the hell does that work ? free leccy??????

what do you suppose your set up has cost you in total, hard cash, excluding what it has brought back to the party ?

This years FIT is 60.23 per kw/h. You also get paid 5.99p for exporting.

They have no method of determining how much you export so just assume 50% for everyone irrespective if you export zero like I do.

So the calculation to be paid is:

1kwh generated = 60.23+3p = 63.23p

you get paid every quarter. The 20 years is from when you had them installed, mine was 2012. with this years inflation at 7.5% it will be a healthy boost. Very nice in summer when your producing 25kwh a day getting £15 a day!


Unfortunately this free cash machine is long gone. If i were to do it now and assuming you have outdoor space id do ground array optimised for pitch and angle.

As for the free leccy from grid, I'm on a time of day tariff. from 12:01 - 4am its very cheap, if there is an excess of renewables on the grid (wind) they let you have it for free.

Cost wise the solar kit cost me 7,5k is 2012, less vat and less 20% corp tax saving. Ive averaged £2150 per year in FIT payments not counting the free electric.

 

[GazCro]

Forget FIT if you want to benefit from solar you either need to be using it when its being produced (retired or work from home) or you've got to store it imo.

 

[Smiffy]

I love it when people think firewood is free. If you put a value on your own time even if you're getting the wood for nowt and only cutting splitting and storing it it adds up.

If you consider that making firewood keeps you warm twice and the aim is to keep you warm then it's quite efficient in comparison to other forms of energy

 

[V8Druid]

This years FIT is 60.23 per kw/h. You also get paid 5.99p for exporting.

They have no method of determining how much you export so just assume 50% for everyone irrespective if you export zero like I do.

So the calculation to be paid is:

1kwh generated = 60.23+3p = 63.23p

you get paid every quarter. The 20 years is from when you had them installed, mine was 2012. with this years inflation at 7.5% it will be a healthy boost. Very nice in summer when your producing 25kwh a day getting £15 a day!


Unfortunately this free cash machine is long gone. If i were to do it now and assuming you have outdoor space id do ground array optimised for pitch and angle.

As for the free leccy from grid, I'm on a time of day tariff. from 12:01 - 4am its very cheap, if there is an excess of renewables on the grid (wind) they let you have it for free.

Cost wise the solar kit cost me 7,5k is 2012, less vat and less 20% corp tax saving. Ive averaged £2150 per year in FIT payments not counting the free electric.

presumably that is your historic FIT from when you 'opted into' the system??????

nice to be paid for summat you don't do .... that is a real result

I presume the "3p" is the current FIT?

nice summer time earner ..... presumably whether you actually feed in or not .....
again presumably " this free cash machine is long gone " by virtue of the fact that FIT is now a pittance, but you are still on your historical FIT from the time you 'opted in' ??

problem with ground array is it's dead space and needs planning I understand .... plus needs to be kept safe ..... does one still need circa 16 panels to achieve a 4Kw production capability?

How did you set up the 12-4 am cheapo ?? I assume this is on a night storage/cheap rate type meter, like there used to be for night storage heater users?
love the sound of free leccy, but need to have a store (of some description - batteries or heat(?) storage) to make use of it

your £7.5k was purely your panels and controls, presumably ... 'bout what I was quoted in '11/'12 for a 4Kw set up ..... but you also have your battery wall, etc. which also contributes to your set up ... can't imagine that was a cheap investment? What's its capacity, life span and replacement cost when it dies ? What type of batteries are they in these walls?

You are/were lucky in being able to claim a great deal of the expenses back 20 + 20% on the installation is a BIG chunk of the outlay .... I'd've almost certainly gone for it back then too, had i been able to make those sorts of savings ... makes the figures work a lot better.

 

[V8Druid]

Forget FIT if you want to benefit from solar you either need to be using it when its being produced (retired or work from home) or you've got to store it imo.

absolutely ... FIT is a farce currently .... and retired or not, you'd have to work at using your generated power

does anyone know how it works if your panels are generating, your batteries are full and there is no way to 'use' what the panels produce ... how is it bled off????

 

[V8Druid]

I love it when people think firewood is free. If you put a value on your own time even if you're getting the wood for nowt and only cutting splitting and storing it it adds up.

far from free for sure, but a damned good heat source ('til they start taxing us on it )

It’s more rewarding than paying out 1k for a kerosene top up every 6 months

TBH I doubt it's any cheaper by the time it's all added up in effort, time, etc. ..... but nice to sit in front of on a cold, wet night

There's better hobbies

for sure

My two peneth: do not have all your eggs in one basket. If you have solar, a generator and a connection to the grid that's got to be good irrespective of price (within reason). Who knows how prices/circumstances will change over the next ten years?

deffo ... the last few months have proven that .... in spades

 

[Left hooker]

I love it when people think firewood is free. If you put a value on your own time even if you're getting the wood for nowt and only cutting splitting and storing it it adds up.

Don't get fit paying for electric mind you your wallet does get lighter

 

[V8Druid]

We have had 4kW of Solar on our roof facing South since 2015 with FIT

Even with a reduced FIT, it's the best thing that we did for reducing bills and doing our bit for the planet.
They have paid for themselves over and over again.
SWMBO usually put on high consumption stuff when we are generating surplus.
Usually, dishwasher, washing machine and tumble dryer etc - Sharon is well trained

Now, two of my neighbours opposite have about 3kW of panels on their garage roofs.
No FIT just a Grid Tied Inverter to offset their consumption.
One the old buggers got caught out when his old fashioned meter had been going backwards and showed a minus figure for some reading(s)

Personally, I think that it's a waste of time trying to get Solar PV to heat water for general heating etc.
I think that it's better to offset the general constant background power that we use day by day.

So, coming to your question - YES DO IT
Some panels on yer shed will help keep yer consumption down.
Now your just need to decide on straight forward Grid Tied or Battery Storage

really ? in 7 years Dave? ...... unless the installation costs had shrunk dramatically by 2015 from 2012 , you get a lot of sun and use a lorraleccy !!

 

[GazCro]

Don't get fit paying for electric mind you your wallet does get lighter

I don't mind a bit of firewooding for using in woodburner but as soon as you start using it to heat water it's cheaper to put the hours in at work and burn oil. It's no different with solar etc if the installation cost is high enough are the savings enough to pay it back before you factor in reliabilty or maintenance and you really do need to be set up to use it efficiently.

 

[Smiffy]

If you want to run underfloor heating off these setup but don't have it installed I fitted this to our house as it was originally blown hot air and the layout of the house didn't lend itself to radiators downstairs due to the amount of doorways into the living room. Couldn't afford to dig the floor up but this is very economic to install. It has its drawbacks but definitely worth thinking about

Water Insulation Boards | Lowest Price | The Underfloor Heating Store

Water Insulation Boards in stock at The Underfloor Heating Store ✓ Insulation panels for water underfloor heating ✓ Free delivery on all orders ✓

www.theunderfloorheatingstore.com

 

[Routy56]

Biggest negative for using it to heat water is that unless you are gonna start again with you're heating system most homes aren't set up to use it efficiently.

Yep agree with that - most heat pumps and similar run at about 50c so underfloor getting is the way to go.
SWMBO has banned me from digging up all our floors

 

[pettsy]

I’ve only ever done wet systems. how do the over lay systems pass building regulations when it’s doubtful if there’s any insulation in the existing flooring?

 

[V8Druid]

If you want to run underfloor heating off these setup but don't have it installed I fitted this to our house as it was originally blown hot air and the layout of the house didn't lend itself to radiators downstairs due to the amount of doorways into the living room. Couldn't afford to dig the floor up but this is very economic to install. It has its drawbacks but definitely worth thinking about

Water Insulation Boards | Lowest Price | The Underfloor Heating Store

Water Insulation Boards in stock at The Underfloor Heating Store ✓ Insulation panels for water underfloor heating ✓ Free delivery on all orders ✓

www.theunderfloorheatingstore.com

so you lay that on the existing floors and lay another skin of floor over it ??????? .... reduces your doorway heights a bit surely ??

 

[V8Druid]

Yep agree with that - most heat pumps and similar run at about 50c so underfloor getting is the way to go.
SWMBO has banned me from digging up all our floors

you need a Micron

 

[GazCro]

I’ve only ever done wet systems. how do the over lay systems pass building regulations when it’s doubtful if there’s any insulation in the existing flooring?

Probably not used when building control is involved or don't come under building regs as in effect your just laying radiator on the floor.

 

[TiltyShaun]

All very interesting stuff. I have 3.75 kw on the roof which we put up in 2015. Can’t remember what the tariff was back then but we now get 15.92p per unit on every unit and 5.57p on the assumed 50% that would go back into the grid. We generate about 3400unit per year. Income is tax free and bear in mind you never get your capital back! I think we paid about £7k for the installation. I also have 2 solar thermal panels on the roof which normally does the hot water from April to September with just the odd days when we put the oil burner on. I done the the hot water system myself using secondhand panels and an additional hot water cylinder in the attic. That has been a very worthwhile investment of not a lot of cash and some time.
We have a heat pump and solar system to heat the swimming pool as well. So a battery system does stack up for me as when the sun shines. The heat pump for the pool goes on to use the power off the roof!!

 

[fred]

presumably that is your historic FIT from when you 'opted into' the system??????

nice to be paid for summat you don't do .... that is a real result

I presume the "3p" is the current FIT?

nice summer time earner ..... presumably whether you actually feed in or not .....
again presumably " this free cash machine is long gone " by virtue of the fact that FIT is now a pittance, but you are still on your historical FIT from the time you 'opted in' ??

problem with ground array is it's dead space and needs planning I understand .... plus needs to be kept safe ..... does one still need circa 16 panels to achieve a 4Kw production capability?

How did you set up the 12-4 am cheapo ?? I assume this is on a night storage/cheap rate type meter, like there used to be for night storage heater users?
love the sound of free leccy, but need to have a store (of some description - batteries or heat(?) storage) to make use of it

your £7.5k was purely your panels and controls, presumably ... 'bout what I was quoted in '11/'12 for a 4Kw set up ..... but you also have your battery wall, etc. which also contributes to your set up ... can't imagine that was a cheap investment? What's its capacity, life span and replacement cost when it dies ? What type of batteries are they in these walls?

You are/were lucky in being able to claim a great deal of the expenses back 20 + 20% on the installation is a BIG chunk of the outlay .... I'd've almost certainly gone for it back then too, had i been able to make those sorts of savings ... makes the figures work a lot better.

no.

This years FIT is 60.23 per kw/h. You also get paid 5.99p for exporting.

 

[fred]

so you lay that on the existing floors and lay another skin of floor over it ??????? .... reduces your doorway heights a bit surely ??

and pointless unless you have a min of 100mm insulation under it.

 

[Smiffy]

so you lay that on the existing floors and lay another skin of floor over it ??????? .... reduces your doorway heights a bit surely ??

Only 25mm for the standard system and 16mm for the standard system

and pointless unless you have a min of 100mm insulation under it.

Not pointless atall. Heat goes up. The heat that goes down with this system is negligible.
Because they are close to the surface and you aren't relying on a thermal mass the heat pattern is that of a radiator.
You would not leave them on constantly like traditional underfloor heating due to the lack of thermal mass it would be pointless.
Instead you set them to come on for short periods of time to a higher temperature like a radiator to warm the room.
People who dismiss seem unable to understand this.
I don't know whether this setup would cause problem running with a heat pump setup as I don't run one but I do know our heating is very cheap. Far cheaper than our neighbors and that is despite my wife's insistence that the house should be hotter than hell itself.