Electric vehicles

[pettsy]

Mate of mine had a brand new one at work, I’m sure he told me all the paint flaked off when they cleaned it with the pressure washer

 

[V8Druid]

Tesla model 3. Full spec, dual motor, biggest battery etc. I think it will realistically do 200 plus miles (he uses it to go to and from Swindon from Cheshire to see his kids, and doesn’t need to charge it en route, gets there with plenty in reserve).
No idea what it weighs, don’t know about towing. He reckons he’s seen 165mph out of it (!) and I cannot believe how it accelerates - genuine hold-on-to-the-steering-wheel stuff. I’ve been in plenty of fast cars and nothing feels as fast as this (might partly be because it is silent, and it doesn’t lose traction at all - the throttle pedal is like a switch). Cost him £40ish k second hand last year and has actually gone up in value apparently (Tesla want to buy it back off him). It’s full of tech - it self-drives, you can watch Netflix, use Google etc. No road tax, cheap insurance, bugger all servicing (eats tyres though!). Very very impressive bit of kit!

but how does he get home??????

 

[Canal Navvy]

I think if it could be tied in with a solar array and essentially be used as a power bank then it would be a mega second car.
[/QUOTE]

The mobile battery bank does have a lot of appeal, could even charge up from the panels on the workshop roof and take it home of an evening

 

[Monkeybusiness]

but how does he get home??????

Charges it up down there whilst getting some food (I think half an hour plugged in gets him plenty of range to get back). Currently much cheaper than fuelling a normal car he reckons.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Charges it up down there whilst getting some food (I think half an hour plugged in gets him plenty of range to get back). Currently much cheaper than fuelling a normal car he reckons.

If you on a decent tariff ...if you paying 50p a kw at services etc do the math...was an article recently showing that these superchargers were costing 10p a mile more than petrol!

 

[OBL]

Rough rule of thumb. Taking real world efficiency into account.

Mini size EV is around 4 to 5 miles per kWh
Tesla/mid size 3 to 5miles per kWh (Koreans and Tesla prob best efficiency)
Big E tron SUV type 2.5 to 3.5 miles per kWh

Say 3.5mile /kWh average at home charge 28p capped is about 8p per mile in electric.
A diesel filling up on £1.90 a litre is £8.62 a gallon so equivalent mpg needed to match 8p a mile is 102mpg.

Take into account zero road tax, a minuscule BIK and being able to offset against tax and you can’t beat a home charged EV for a daily driver at the moment. (Obviously not a weekend fun car and useless for towing)

Next April will be very different if diesel drops and electric at home doubles.
I expect at 60p kWh now away from home will soon be over £1 and more expensive to run than diesel.

The government have tried to incentivise EV to flood the market but they will be undone by the rising cost of electric for all but people wishing to take virtually untaxed money (in the shape of a car) from their business.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Rough rule of thumb. Taking real world efficiency into account.

Mini size EV is around 4 to 5 miles per kWh
Tesla/mid size 3 to 5miles per kWh (Koreans and Tesla prob best efficiency)
Big E tron SUV type 2.5 to 3.5 miles per kWh

Say 3.5mile /kWh average at home charge 28p capped is about 8p per mile in electric.
A diesel filling up on £1.90 a litre is £8.62 a gallon so equivalent mpg needed to match 8p a mile is 102mpg.

Take into account zero road tax, a minuscule BIK and being able to offset against tax and you can’t beat a home charged EV for a daily driver at the moment. (Obviously not a weekend fun car and useless for towing)

Next April will be very different if diesel drops and electric at home doubles.
I expect at 60p kWh now away from home will soon be over £1 and more expensive to run than diesel.

The government have tried to incentivise EV to flood the market but they will be undone by the rising cost of electric for all but people wishing to take virtually untaxed money (in the shape of a car) from their business.

Good points..
I'd love to see the stats of how many are run by companies purely for the tax perk. Every one I know that owns one is for that purpose...

 

[GazCro]

Good points..
I'd love to see the stats of how many are run by companies purely for the tax perk. Every one I know that owns one is for that purpose...

Its the same as all "green" things like renewable energy on homes like solar etc. It's all about what you can claim back in taxes, rhi payments etc that make it viable but you need loads of money to begin with to outlay which joe bloggs doesn't have spare. If it was really about being "green" you'd be able to buy it all for its actual cost not a vastly inflated sum which you can claim back over its life (as long as nothing breaks).

 

[OBL]

Good points..
I'd love to see the stats of how many are run by companies purely for the tax perk. Every one I know that owns one is for that purpose...

I agree, unless the cutoff date for ICE production is set in stone I see EV residuals being too risky when supply catches up for many private buyers.

The leases are sky high to capitalise on all the business users jumping on the tax breaks. (I think you can claim a portion of the VAT back on a company car if leased? )

When electric costs more than pump fuel equivalent (and if ICE is not being taxed out of existence) then in a cost of living crisis you’d be mad to choose an expensive EV bought privately.

And I say that as an EV driver!

 

[OBL]

Its the same as all "green" things like renewable energy on homes like solar etc. It's all about what you can claim back in taxes, rhi payments etc that make it viable but you need loads of money to begin with to outlay which joe bloggs doesn't have spare. If it was really about being "green" you'd be able to buy it all for its actual cost not a vastly inflated sum which you can claim back over its life (as long as nothing breaks).

Eco for most means Economical over Ecological. But if one can achieve the other then people will follow

Longterm hope personally is hydrogen technology is invested in and control of production kept in each country so we can control our own countries transport costs and tax rates depending on type of use and not be beholden to world fluctuations.

Probably very naive hope. Until governments extract themselves from the well lined pockets of global corporations we are screwed.

 

[GazCro]

Eco for most means Economical over Ecological. But if one can achieve the other then people will follow

Longterm hope personally is hydrogen technology is invested in and control of production kept in each country so we can control our own countries transport costs and tax rates depending on type of use and not be beholden to world fluctuations.

Probably very naive hope. Until governments extract themselves from the well lined pockets of global corporations we are screwed.

That's another thing tbh economical or ecological that winds me up. 20 year ago it was all about energy efficiency and using less, now it seems highly overpriced "green" energy is just so those with the means to do better can enjoy guilt free wasting of energy

 

[OBL]

That's another thing tbh economical or ecological that winds me up. 20 year ago it was all about energy efficiency and using less, now it seems highly overpriced "green" energy is just so those with the means to do better can enjoy guilt free wasting of energy

Acid rain, ozone layers, CFC’s, deforestation, climate change, war.... if you just pay more tax it will stop.... honest

 

[Smiffy]

Acid rain, ozone layers, CFC’s, deforestation, climate change, war.... if you just pay more tax it will stop.... honest

I thought it's just that you only contribute to these things if your poor.
If you can afford a range rover or even better a private jet then you aren't the problem. If you drive the same knackered old 4x4 for work the last 10 years then you are basically murdering polar bears on the daily

 

[OBL]

I thought it's just that you only contribute to these things if your poor.
If you can afford a range rover or even better a private jet then you aren't the problem. If you drive the same knackered old 4x4 for work the last 10 years then you are basically murdering polar bears on the daily

I think anyone poor will be on public transport in a year with little chance of creating alternative pollution unfortunately. As soon as household energy hits £4K plus a year...
Leaving the “not yet poor“ with a hefty bill.

Does anyone know the household income level needed to become a contributor by way of tax paid in the uk taking into account public spend per head?

If I recall it was higher than the average household income.
I can’t find it on google or I’m using the wrong terminology !

 

[OBL]

Found it, 2.36 persons per household and £13k public spend per capita.
So a household needs to earn over £30k to be a contributor rather than burden on uk finances. (Sorry sounds harsh,I don’t like my terminology there but can’t think of another way to say burden)

 

[Smiffy]

I think anyone poor will be on public transport in a year with little chance of creating alternative pollution unfortunately. As soon as household energy hits £4K plus a year...
Leaving the “not yet poor“ with a hefty bill.

Does anyone know the household income level needed to become a contributor by way of tax paid in the uk taking into account public spend per head?

If I recall it was higher than the average household income.
I can’t find it on google or I’m using the wrong terminology !

Struggle to go to public transport. It simply doesn't exist outside of large towns. And even a lot of towns it's pretty poor.

 

[V8Druid]

Charges it up down there whilst getting some food (I think half an hour plugged in gets him plenty of range to get back). Currently much cheaper than fuelling a normal car he reckons.

plugged into what !!!!! ? .... local power station?

If you on a decent tariff ...if you paying 50p a kw at services etc do the math...was an article recently showing that these superchargers were costing 10p a mile more than petrol!

wonder how many of these EV drivers actually do a full maths exercise on the cost of buying and running their mobile toasters ??

 

[V8Druid]

Struggle to go to public transport. It simply doesn't exist outside of large towns. And even a lot of towns it's pretty poor.

we don't have any .. simple as .. we're 2+ miles from the nearest bus stop that sees two a day and that's 2 miles down/up a proper hill.

Aber 'supposedly' has a bus service!! ... tha's why there are circa 6-7+ taxi outfits in Aber., flying about, ferrying folk about the town, laden with shopping ... public transport is a total farce

got a H2 refueling station though, for some experimental/prototype vehicles, based 30+ miles away in Brecon area, that one can never own, just rent.

https://www.riversimple.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/Riversimple-Media-Kit-General.pdf

Don't get me started on HTF Mon. CC managed to weasel planning through on that, let alone manage to spend our council tax on the ****ing project, that is of absolutely no benefit to residents of the county, let alone Aber.

 

[OBL]

Struggle to go to public transport. It simply doesn't exist outside of large towns. And even a lot of towns it's pretty poor.

Absolutely true but sadly that won’t prevent people who are going to slip into poverty due to the energy crisis at home losing the means to run a vehicle.

Already 12 million (1 in 5) people are in poverty at the moment, the UKs definition of poverty is 60% less than the median income £30.5k (£12.2k!!)

When/if energy hits £450 a month as predicted next April, how many more will slip below?
Must be bloody scary for literally 20 million folk right now.
I’d read that 33% of people have less than £250 in savings.

It looks really bleak and a huge crisis that the gov are ignoring while they squabble and bicker about wokeness In their bid to lead.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Struggle to go to public transport. It simply doesn't exist outside of large towns. And even a lot of towns it's pretty poor.

Public transport?
Presume you mean buses?
Rail Unions and operators are doing a spectacular job of jointly finishing off what service there was