DVSA changes to driver hours record keeping

[Justme]

Your exempt from EU driving rules, but have to comply with GB domestic, which needs a record kept, if the vehicle is on an O licence

THIS

you exempt tacho / EU regs your not exempt GB domestic regs or the wtd or DWTD.

 

[Justme]

Not if you are driving under the exemptions. Pretty pointless having exemptions if you still have to record your hours!!

Lots of exempt companies still use the tacho to record the hours as its easier.

I do bits for a local dairy that is exempt (farm collection vehicles only, trans shipments still need tacho) but even when on out of scope on the head cards are still used to comply with the other regs.

 

[TiltyShaun]

THIS

you exempt tacho / EU regs your not exempt GB domestic regs or the wtd or DWTD.

Go and read the exemptions.

Drivers must keep written records of their hours of work on a weekly record sheet for vehicles used for the carriage of goods that require an Operator Licence and driving exceeds 4 hours in that day. An example of such a sheet is at Annex 3. Operators are expected to check and sign each weekly record sheet.

So I don’t need an operators licence, I don’t drive over 4 hours a day, so I don’t need to keep a written record.

 

[TiltyShaun]

Exemptions from keeping records​

Some groups are exempt from requirements to keep records under domestic rules on drivers’ hours.

Follow the flowchart below to determine whether records must be kept.

 

[Bob]

From todays express


On Friday the Transport Secretary will open a consultation on whether to lift the ban on motorists driving anything larger than a 3.5-ton vehicle in order to solve driver shortages. The ban was imposed by the EU prior to Britain’s exit from the bloc.

In a letter to MPs, the Transport Secretary wrote: “It has been suggested that now the UK has left the European Union, we may wish to allow all car drivers – not just those who passed their test before Jan 1, 1997, the right to drive these larger vehicles without the need for a further test.


“Changes to the licensing categories would potentially create a greater pool of drivers. I am quite happy to explore this idea and how this may work in reality – without making any commitments to legislative change at this stage.”

A Government source said: “We are past the days when EU directives were handed down on tablets of stone, and we should be prepared to liberalise where we can, testing the necessity for maintaining driving restrictions that were once thought unnecessary in this country.

“Grant thinks we should have a fresh look at this, but of course, this has to be done with due regard for safety.”

 

[Quattromike]

I keep thinking our work is exempt but I need to look at it again I'm not confident I know anymore

 

[hiluxman]

From todays express


On Friday the Transport Secretary will open a consultation on whether to lift the ban on motorists driving anything larger than a 3.5-ton vehicle in order to solve driver shortages. The ban was imposed by the EU prior to Britain’s exit from the bloc.

In a letter to MPs, the Transport Secretary wrote: “It has been suggested that now the UK has left the European Union, we may wish to allow all car drivers – not just those who passed their test before Jan 1, 1997, the right to drive these larger vehicles without the need for a further test.


“Changes to the licensing categories would potentially create a greater pool of drivers. I am quite happy to explore this idea and how this may work in reality – without making any commitments to legislative change at this stage.”

A Government source said: “We are past the days when EU directives were handed down on tablets of stone, and we should be prepared to liberalise where we can, testing the necessity for maintaining driving restrictions that were once thought unnecessary in this country.

“Grant thinks we should have a fresh look at this, but of course, this has to be done with due regard for safety.”

While they are at that they should alter it to be been able to tow 3.5t behind a class 2.

Especially as all us who paid for class 2 as you needed that first before you could do class1.

 

[TiltyShaun]

While they are at that they should alter it to be been able to tow 3.5t behind a class 2.

Especially as all us who paid for class 2 as you needed that first before you could do class1.

And look at the O license changes that @JD450A bangs on about. No license for up to a higher weight, no 6 week test but more frequent MOT and then actually enforce the requirements.

 

[Justme]

Go and read the exemptions.

Drivers must keep written records of their hours of work on a weekly record sheet for vehicles used for the carriage of goods that require an Operator Licence and driving exceeds 4 hours in that day. An example of such a sheet is at Annex 3. Operators are expected to check and sign each weekly record sheet.

So I don’t need an operators licence, I don’t drive over 4 hours a day, so I don’t need to keep a written record.

What MAM is your vehicle?

 

[Justme]

Exemptions from keeping records​

Some groups are exempt from requirements to keep records under domestic rules on drivers’ hours.

Follow the flowchart below to determine whether records must be kept.

Seeing as that quotes 50km radius its a good few years out of date.
Its been 100km for a long time.

 

[TiltyShaun]

What MAM is your vehicle?

7000kg

 

[Justme]

Re not doing recordable work on that one day not then needing recording. Thats what has changed.

If you do one days work that is recordable say on the 15th of the month then you need the previous 28 days recording, I am actually not sure how many days post the 15th would need recording as I guess thats down to when the next recordable day is.

Also remember that most generally used tacho exemptions stop at >7500kg.

I assume that you use this exemption:-

Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes used for specific purposes​

This only includes:

• carrying materials, equipment or machinery for the driver’s use in the course of their work
• delivering goods produced on a craft basis

In both cases, this must only be:

• within a 100 km radius from the base of the undertaking
• on the condition that driving the vehicle does not constitute the driver’s main activity
• that the transport is not carried out for hire or reward

Carrying materials, equipment or machinery would apply to tradesmen such as electricians or builders carrying tools or materials for their own use. A court case clarified that the terms ‘material or equipment’ covers not only tools and instruments, but also goods which are required for the performance of the work involved in the main activity of the driver.

 

[Justme]

7000kg

Ah that explains it. Still allowed exemptions at that weight.

 

[Justme]

7000kg

Just watch if you ever go outside the exemption zone that all work in the pervious 28 days counts.

Thats is what catches me when towing with the discovery. The odd job just outside the zone.

 

[Justme]

This is the current GB rules that I feel will still catch you.

GB domestic rules​

The GB (Great Britain) domestic drivers’ hours rules apply to most passenger-carrying vehicles and goods vehicles that do not have to follow the EU rules.
GB domestic rules apply in England, Wales and Scotland. There are separate rules in Northern Ireland.

Goods vehicles​

If you drive a goods vehicle, there are rules you need to follow on duty time, daily driving limits and daily duty limits.

Duty time​

If you work as a driver for a company, duty time is any working time. If you’re self-employed, duty time is only time you spend driving the vehicle or doing other work related to the vehicle or its load.

Daily driving limit​

You must not drive for more than 10 hours in a day:

• on a public road
• off-road if not during duty time

Off-road driving counts as duty time if it’s for:

• agriculture
• quarrying
• forestry
• building work
• civil engineering

Daily duty limit​

You must not be on duty for more than 11 hours in any working day. This limit does not apply on any working day when you do not drive.
You must record your hours on a weekly record sheet or on a tachograph.
Some vehicles are exempt from the duty limit.
You’re exempt from the daily duty limit if your vehicle weighs less than 3.5 tonnes and you’re using your vehicle:

• as a doctor, dentist, nurse, midwife or vet
• for inspection, cleaning or maintenance work
• as commercial travellers when carrying goods (other than personal effects) only for the purpose of soliciting orders
• while working for the AA, RAC or RSAC
• for cinematography or radio and television broadcasting

Exemptions to all GB domestic rules​

You do not need to follow the GB domestic rules if you:

• are dealing with an emergency - for example, a major disruption to public services or danger to life (this only applies while you’re dealing with the emergency)
• are using the vehicle for private driving and not for work
• drive off-road or on private roads during duty time
• drive a vehicle used by the armed forces, police or fire brigade

 

[TiltyShaun]

Seeing as that quotes 50km radius its a good few years out of date.
Its been 100km for a long time.

That may be the case, but when you click through the UK. gov website on exemptions for ‘record keeping’ that is still what shows. They may will have updated the guidance for tacho exemption which is what I think you are quoting as the 100km radius. It doesn’t mine the record keeping guidance has changed.

What this does show is what a mess the rules are!! They need to be simple, effective and then enforced if they are to mean anything.

I have a HGV licence so I had better keep a diary in case I decided tomorrow to jump in a truck for a drive……..hang on…..my drivers CPC is out of date…….I had better do it for free!!!! So how stupid are the rules. I can drive up to 32tonnes as long as I am not being paid as the driver. I could still do it under the exemptions if it is my digger on the back that I am carrying. Does that make my more safe than someone driving daily for a living???

Can we both agree reform is required whatever the current state of the rules and the website??

 

[Justme]

That may be the case, but when you click through the UK. gov website on exemptions for ‘record keeping’ that is still what shows. They may will have updated the guidance for tacho exemption which is what I think you are quoting as the 100km radius. It doesn’t mine the record keeping guidance has changed.

What this does show is what a mess the rules are!! They need to be simple, effective and then enforced if they are to mean anything.

I have a HGV licence so I had better keep a diary in case I decided tomorrow to jump in a truck for a drive……..hang on…..my drivers CPC is out of date…….I had better do it for free!!!! So how stupid are the rules. I can drive up to 32tonnes as long as I am not being paid as the driver. I could still do it under the exemptions if it is my digger on the back that I am carrying. Does that make my more safe than someone driving daily for a living???

Can we both agree reform is required whatever the current state of the rules and the website??

Hell yes its too complex and DVSA will not give a reply they will stand behind.
Its a mess & any changes just make it messier.

A 32t cannot be tacho exempt for own goods / tools.
Thats stops at 7500kg so to even turn the key you would need tacho.

CPC is another area thats stuffed up.

 

[TiltyShaun]

Hell yes its too complex and DVSA will not give a reply they will stand behind.
Its a mess & any changes just make it messier.

A 32t cannot be tacho exempt for own goods / tools.
Thats stops at 7500kg so to even turn the key you would need tacho.

CPC is another area thats stuffed up.

The 32000kg example was more to do with needing to keep the diary for the past 28days!!