Druidic Dabblings and General Twaddle !!

[V8Druid]

I vaguely remember something like this with a mates LED’s on his landy and it was the voltage difference between earth and neutral causing it. Fixed easily with a cheap small capacitor. Loads of info online.

there is no earth on a vehicle Charlie .... +ve and -ve, which is commonly referred to as earth, but is the -ve pole of the battery, using the chassis as a conductor, so the capacitor would've been across the pos. and neg.

Does it stop if you remove the earth? If it has an earth that is?

I didn't try it ..... been out to a mate's most of the day, helping him strip a gert machine that needed two pairs of eyes/hands/brain cells.
didn't get back 'til gone four and have had a couple of hours investigating.

Yes it has a full and complete earth circuit, right the way back to the consumer unit in the house ?

Cannot find any leak with a meter across circuits or switches?
replaced the pull cord switch .. no difference ..... had the 2 way rocker out of circuit and meter-ed it .... sod all .....

the flash rate is approx. every three seconds and so dim you need to be up the ladder next to the unit to see it.
meter across live and neutral gives zero to 46 volts, building over the three seconds .. LED triggers, return to zero and builds again .. etc., etc. .... it's just like a capacitor charging

Isolate the circuit at the MCB .... zero Volts at the LED and both switches, so it's somewhere in that circuit, but shows zero cross talk between any line with a meter ?? I have three points at which I can meter it over the length of all the circuits between the house and the shed and two more at the shed end .... all showing zero cross talk with a 2 meg Ω test ?? ..... then the bell tolled and it was tea time
I might try replacing the LED unit with a bulb holder and tungsten bulb and see WTF I get then ..... but can not for the life of me see how the voltage is arriving and building slowly over three seconds at the LED unit with both switches in the off position ???????
Inducted voltage over the length of the two control wires between the switches ... about 100 ft ????? there is a constant live at the L1 poles, in both switches, running beside the L2 and common leads

'S got me foxed ......... for now at least ......

'sposed to piss down tomorrow, so leccy fiddling'll be out the window, if it does and'll probably be over at Simon's tomorrow rebuilding said lump, if he gets a couple of bit's mod.-ed tonight.

 

[Charlie]

there is no earth on a vehicle Charlie .... +ve and -ve, which is commonly referred to as earth, but is the -ve pole of the battery, using the chassis as a conductor, so the capacitor would've been across the pos. and neg

WTF!!!! I know you don't and therefore I have absolutely no idea what I'm chatting about!!!!! Can't of been his landy then just ignore me, long day,. 700mile round trip and shagged.

 

[modelman093]

Just put a new LED security light on the end of the house to replace an ancient halogen with a faulty sensor. Just noticed that although it functions as it should , when not lit, the little square “ lamp” appears to glow.

 

[V8Druid]

WTF!!!! I know you don't and therefore I have absolutely no idea what I'm chatting about!!!!! Can't of been his landy then just ignore me, long day,. 700mile round trip and shagged.

..... yep that qualifies as a loooooooooooooooooooong day

 

[V8Druid]

Just put a new LED security light on the end of the house to replace an ancient halogen with a faulty sensor. Just noticed that although it functions as it should , when not lit, the little square “ lamp” appears to glow.

there is summat odd about these things Angus .... just been out and locked the shed (as I forgot, after tea ) and having turned the 3 strips on inside, when turned off, they took a good minute to stop glowing to the point I couldn't see them
not bad light off the little floods though .... only 10W ones (see WTF you are type thing) and a very respectable amount of light from them
got some bigger 50W ones I haven't tried yet .... be interesting to see what level of light they emit .... 'sposed to be equivalent to a 500W halogen

more than happy with the strip lights .......

without the overhead storage in the way it'd be some bit bright in there

 

[V8Druid]

well it ain't raining and the inducted voltage is looking like the favorite ATM

have checked everything and there is sod all wrong with me wiring or the switches

capacitor or resistor across the LED connections looks to be fave, for killing the induced voltage, from my research thus far

or going low voltage on the control circuit and banging a relay in the shed end to handle the 240V switching

****ing annoying
__________________

 

[V8Druid]

OK ... on the right track ..... it's called Ghost or Phantom voltage ....
" Ghost voltages can be caused when energized circuits and non energized wiring are located in close proximity to each other, such as in the same conduit or raceway. ... The meter is actually measuring voltage coupled into the disconnected conductor. "
... the longer the run, the worse it is

trying to find a method of eliminating them has proved a lot more difficult on Google .... Any ideas @Cyberprog ?? you'm the electrical wizard round here ... capacitor (or resisitor?) across the LED connections to suppress that ghost voltage and stop the LED tripping/firing (flashing) ??
can't seem to find any 'proprietary' ghost voltage 'slayers'

EDIT

been rummaging me stores this evening for suitable relays for a variation on the control circuits .... got 24V, 110V and 240V on 11 pin with plenty of bases for an install ....

might see if the ghost voltage'll trigger a 240V relay at all .... will save transforming the voltage down to 24V for the control circuit, if it doesn't and simplify the install .... even got some DIN rail relay bases that'd go in the consumer unit

sod all is ever easy

 

[Cyberprog]

Bit beyond my skills sadly! I'm most at home with low voltage stuff, though dabble with the other stuff from time to time.

 

[jd6820]

OK ... on the right track ..... it's called Ghost or Phantom voltage ....
" Ghost voltages can be caused when energized circuits and non energized wiring are located in close proximity to each other, such as in the same conduit or raceway. ... The meter is actually measuring voltage coupled into the disconnected conductor. "
... the longer the run, the worse it is

trying to find a method of eliminating them has proved a lot more difficult on Google .... Any ideas @Cyberprog ?? you'm the electrical wizard round here ... capacitor (or resisitor?) across the LED connections to suppress that ghost voltage and stop the LED tripping/firing (flashing) ??
can't seem to find any 'proprietary' ghost voltage 'slayers'

EDIT

been rummaging me stores this evening for suitable relays for a variation on the control circuits .... got 24V, 110V and 240V on 11 pin with plenty of bases for an install ....

might see if the ghost voltage'll trigger a 240V relay at all .... will save transforming the voltage down to 24V for the control circuit, if it doesn't and simplify the install .... even got some DIN rail relay bases that'd go in the consumer unit

sod all is ever easy

Well the resistor would be a far better bet than a capacitor as that is what is currently contributing to your problem. As you are probably aware LEDs take a minuscule amount of current to drive them, really all that is required is a reasonable voltage. Most LEDs will have a pull down resistor (dummy load) to prevent floating voltages. But some seem to omit this in their internal circuitry hence the capacitor charges up and every few seconds discharges giving that flash you describe. Quite correctly you have identified the ghost/phantom voltages cause by running a live wire near a floating neutral, not normally an issue with incandescent bulbs which require more current. Google "capacitive coupling in LED lighting"

 

[V8Druid]

Well the resistor would be a far better bet than a capacitor as that is what is currently contributing to your problem. As you are probably aware LEDs take a minuscule amount of current to drive them, really all that is required is a reasonable voltage. Most LEDs will have a pull down resistor (dummy load) to prevent floating voltages. But some seem to omit this in their internal circuitry hence the capacitor charges up and every few seconds discharges giving that flash you describe. Quite correctly you have identified the ghost/phantom voltages cause by running a live wire near a floating neutral, not normally an issue with incandescent bulbs which require more current. Google "capacitive coupling in LED lighting"

Great link Boyo ..... two ''snubbers'' ordered ..... here Friday .....see if that cures the issue ............. isn't the internet wonderful

 

[TiltyShaun]

Late to the party but interesting as we had a problem with some LED smart lights at home. These blighters would flash when switched off on a dimmer switch. I always thought off was OFF!!
Glad you are on the way to a solution!!

 

[V8Druid]

Late to the party but interesting as we had a problem with some LED smart lights at home. These blighters would flash when switched off on a dimmer switch. I always thought off was OFF!!
Glad you are on the way to a solution!!

well hopefully ..... tell you Friday after I've fitted these 'snubbers' .... damned near the price of the lights

 

[Charlie]

I believe just one incandescent bulb on the same circuit will solve the problem as well?

 

[V8Druid]

I believe just one incandescent bulb on the same circuit will solve the problem as well?

..... interesting and easily tried .... in theory it should, but'd need to be close to the LED units to kill the ghost voltage across its filament
I'll give it a try tomorrow ... got a great spot I could tap a 10W bulb into a foot from the one LED flood to prove it

 

[V8Druid]

Had a busy day with me mate today ...... on the techy stuff

re-aligning and shimming this ready for re-assembly .....

defeated this afternoon by some O rings that did not wanna fit/stay put, no matter how lubed they were or how hard we tried ... a mod is required

one of the groundsmen at Simon's brother's place came dashing in late this afternoon .... could we look at the Gaiter ... summat had just gone bang an' he couldn't turn it off ....

never seen a stop solenoid coil quite so comprehensively self-destruct before .... end cap clean off it and spewed it's contents well and truly out ..... think it may need a replacement

 

[V8Druid]

right gentlemen (and ladies if we have any) .... get yer brain cells out of storage ... does anyone know where Lion milling machines hail from ... damned if I can remember and drawing a blank on google .... quite fancy this 4VS ....

it's this, or a tidy-ish Kondia FV1 .... both with XYZ power feeds ..... still regretting missing those Ajax last year the Kondias are Spanish and have a decent rep. ..... some folks prefer 'em to a Bridgeport - heavier built, 40 INT taper and more daylight

unless I can turn up some horror stories on the Lion, I'm more inclined to that ..... dearer, but looks to have had a very easy life

Never seen one of these 'in the metal' plenty of Kondias though

soooooo .... anyone care to share

 

[V8Druid]

well Saturday morning got destroyed by a 'town expedition' for supplies for a double birthday meal Sunday for Vicki and her hubby ... both 33 this last week within 2 days of each other ....
and very nice it was too early yesterday evening

this was Saturday morning .... thought it was smoke to start with, but was mist hanging in a shallow valley the other side of that ridge

Saturday afternoon .... or what was left of it, sorted the grass out for a.n.other week - or less - depending on the rain/sun levels for the next few days.

couldn't believe what I had off it for a few days growth

front lawn done as well .... and looking good / shaping up

Sunday'd been a bitsa ... bits of this and bits of that ....

been nagged for weeks to make a couple of seat bases for some old chairs Pam's got it in her head to repaint and upholster ..

job done

back in my favorite place yesterday morning, altering the catenary supply for the boxes ...
had two spare cores so decided to double them up for a better delivery of lecktrickery to them

in and out of there three times, by the time i'd turned it off altered the far end , altered this end, ......
then again to turn it back on after forgetting to do so after I'd altered this end ... Oooops !!

been trying to develop the enthusiasm to break into a trunking in the box to fit this for ages ....

in the wiring mood so thought I'd sort this one too, whilst I had the inclination ..
be handy to have some leccy in that corner of the patch, without having to trail a looong lead out

day seems to disappear quick on the bitsas

and then it was time for the main event .... a birthday tea

and so the munchies got had ... followed by the usual obligatory ceremonials .... three times for a certain lil' one

take two .... I missed the first one LOL

take three

job done

treatment morning today and just giving it the obligatory hour or so, 'fore getting enthused about anything ... feeling sick as a parrot ATM, so may just extend the hour to a bit longer .... don't often get a 'reaction' but it's giving it 'some' this morning
could be last night's 'ros beouf' dinner 'praps - doubt it, but yer never can tell, with my body, these days

 

[Charlie]

I do like that Lion mate, could be a college machine as it looks in such good nick. DRO as well which is nice to have. Can you start it up before you buy or is it as seen?

 

[V8Druid]

I do like that Lion mate, could be a college machine as it looks in such good nick. DRO as well which is nice to have. Can you start it up before you buy or is it as seen?

sadly academic .... listing ended last night .. someone has had a bargain IMHDO ..... chap who had it couldn't tell me if it was ISO 40 Int. spindle, or one of the other tapers or morse even ?.... didn't seem to know much about it at all ..... wanted 40 int. as I have plenty of tooling ..... if he could've said for sure, I'd have took a chance, and hit BIN, when I first saw it, as the listing said it could be run up before collection

The Kondia is only 30 Int., so that's out the window, for me anyway. .... C'est la vie

 

[Cyberprog]

Talking of bargains, picked these up from Wickwar (just up the road) for a tenner on saturday afternoon;

Each one has a 25mm stroke pneumatic cylinder, and a 40mm ram. Pair of 5/2 solenoid valves, 4 flow regulators, and a 5KG Single point load cell. And about a fivers worth of stainless fasteners per unit!

I also picked up a 600mm stroke ram with position sensors all over it for another tenner. I have devious plans in motion. That came with a single action valve as well.

He also offered me these;

415v stepper motors. Serious money new, but I couldn't take the risk myself, if anyone is interested let me know!