Case hardened pins

[Vinpetrol]

Hi All
How’s form with everyone? I know it’s bad form to ignore the forum for ages and arrive back with a question so apologies up front !
my duck needs a couple of case hardened pins for the dipper to engcon link. Komatsu bucket pins are to short .
I need them 60mm diameter and 480mm long drilled at one end for keeper pin .
im thinking this might be right up my old mate the druids street but I will take help from anyone who knows where I might get them .! I’ve tried digbits etc but they are all the same length as Komatsu pins

Any help much appreciated!
cheers
Vin

 

[T whiting]

Have you tried engcon? Either that or a local fabricators should be able to knock them up for you or tbh if you have a drill press and a bit of patience you should be able to knock them up yourself

 

[Vinpetrol]

Yes , apparently issues getting them from engcon at the moment . I don’t have the kit to do them myself . I’m assuming that the case hardening process isn’t carried out by standard fab shops ?

 

[V8Druid]

Have you tried engcon? Either that or a local fabricators should be able to knock them up for you or tbh if you have a drill press and a bit of patience you should be able to knock them up yourself

but Vin wants 'em case hardened Thomas ...... me... I'd buy a bar of 60mm BDMS and make several .... swap 'em as necessary .... a 3m bar is going to be a lot less than a single pin IMHDO .... and you'll get six to a bar

 

[V8Druid]

Yes , apparently issues getting them from engcon at the moment . I don’t have the kit to do them myself . I’m assuming that the case hardening process isn’t carried out by standard fab shops ?

correct ..... been trying to find someone to do some stuff for Simon's brother's place for ages ... only place i knew of is gone

 

[Alan caddy]

Have you tried molsen young think kubota 8 tonner pins about that size, also could try calum macintosh hhh not far from you could also try Chris Knight

 

[Alan caddy]

Could also try Ross sutherlands in dingwall

 

[JD450A]

correct ..... been trying to find someone to do some stuff for Simon's brother's place for ages ... only place i knew of is gone

Mr X keeps threatening to teach me how to do it.... reckons you can DIY it quite confidently if you know how.

 

[V8Druid]

Mr X keeps threatening to teach me how to do it.... reckons you can DIY it quite confidently if you know how.

yeh you can but need an oven to get summat like a pin up to dull red

 

[JD450A]

yeh you can but need an oven to get summat like a pin up to dull red

The theory is a good propane torch and some fire/heater bricks... I need to do it with him at some point. He's a clever fucker and If he says it can be done..... it can be done.

 

[CPS]

Hi All
How’s form with everyone? I know it’s bad form to ignore the forum for ages and arrive back with a question so apologies up front !
my duck needs a couple of case hardened pins for the dipper to engcon link. Komatsu bucket pins are to short .
I need them 60mm diameter and 480mm long drilled at one end for keeper pin .
im thinking this might be right up my old mate the druids street but I will take help from anyone who knows where I might get them .! I’ve tried digbits etc but they are all the same length as Komatsu pins

Any help much appreciated!
cheers
Vin

Hi Vin,

I can supply you with these, I will get you prices across on Monday

 

[Rob65]

The theory is a good propane torch and some fire/heater bricks... I need to do it with him at some point. He's a clever fucker and If he says it can be done..... it can be done.

It can be done quite easily using a case hardening compound but there are two problems.
First is that the old name compounds like ‘Kasenite give of nasty fumes like cyanide so are no longer available. There are modern replacements but they are apparently no so good.
The second problem is not warping the pin due to uneven hearing and cooling.
Rob

 

[Gecko]

I'll just drop in a question here as the last pins I bought don't show any signs of hardening.
So: where do you want ductile / case hardened / fully hardened pins?
I've assumed case hardened down the business end and fully hardened closer to the machine?

 

[V8Druid]

The theory is a good propane torch and some fire/heater bricks... I need to do it with him at some point. He's a clever fucker and If he says it can be done..... it can be done.

yeh can be done .... create an enclosed hearth to get the job uniformly hot in an enclosed chamber ... but as Rob said kasenit is no longer available, which was the best on the market

 

[Vinpetrol]

but Vin wants 'em case hardened Thomas ...... me... I'd buy a bar of 60mm BDMS and make several .... swap 'em as necessary .... a 3m bar is going to be a lot less than a single pin IMHDO .... and you'll get six to a bar

That sounds like a plan , just change them every 500 hours or so ?
what is BDMS?

Hi Vin,

I can supply you with these, I will get you prices across on Monday

cheers Aiden that’ll be great

 

[Gecko]

what is BDMS?

I guess it's like BDSM, but the other person is on top?

 

[JD450A]

It can be done quite easily using a case hardening compound but there are two problems.
First is that the old name compounds like ‘Kasenite give of nasty fumes like cyanide so are no longer available. There are modern replacements but they are apparently no so good.
The second problem is not warping the pin due to uneven hearing and cooling.
Rob

Found this elsewhere

Haven’t seen Kasenit for years - But still use home made hardener that was used before Kasenit came on the market -

2 parts powdered carbon ( ground up charcoal - BBQ )

2 parts molasses ( Black Treacle is the nearest available )

1 part baking powder ( Bicarb of Soda - Sodium Bicarb )

Mix all together (Nice sticky goo) - Heat steel and coat in mix - leave to cool till able to touch - reheat and re dunk - take out of mixture before cool and wire brush.

May need couple of treatments (depends on steel and thickness of skin treatment required)

This was method used by my grandfather in the early 40/50s - He was a Coach Builder and Wheelwright.

Best to do treatment outside as the fumes are a bit pungent -

 

[V8Druid]

That sounds like a plan , just change them every 500 hours or so ?
what is BDMS?

cheers Aiden that’ll be great

bright drawn mild steel - EN8, etc. ..... cheaper than bushes too

 

[Smiffy]

The theory is a good propane torch and some fire/heater bricks... I need to do it with him at some point. He's a clever fucker and If he says it can be done..... it can be done.

My dad does it
He has a couple of forges
The easiest one to do it in is made from an 18kg propane bottle lined with fire proof cement
The jet nozzle can be bought from eBay for under 50 quid
This thing will heat 20mm bar to red hot in under a minute and spits flames a foot out the front when the door is opened

 

[Rob65]

Found this elsewhere

That recipe is missing the eye of a Toad and the claws of a Newt, very necessary ingredients in any potions.

The case hardening process is essentially two separate procedures.
The first is to carborise the item by increasing the carbon content of the case of the steel and the second is the actual hardening which is done by heating and a rapid quench cooling.

Its only the higher carbon outer layer that actually hardens.

The depth of the carborised layer can be increased by holding the temperature high for some time whilst the metal is in contact with the case hardening compound.

There is method that involves packing the metal in a container filled with compound and heating for several hours to get a good carbon depth. This also has the benefit of excluding oxygen so reduces scale formation on the metal.

I still think that warpage will be the biggest problem to solve if ‘home brew’ case hardening pins.

Rob