Build Build Build

V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Form an orderly queue with your brown envelopes

" The planned changes will give local authority planning officers the power to rubberstamp development proposals without permission from council committees, as long as they comply with locally agreed plans and national regulations on standards. "

the LPDP round here is planned, compiled and passed years ahead, but it (or I should say, LAs/councils) still stops dev.s in their tracks, even when fully compliant - usually for the hell of it and to listen to their own BS opinions/voices ... :mad:
most 'councillors' are unfit to contemplate making many such decisions .... many are unfit to even hold their positions TBH :mad:

at a personal level, my old W/shop site had zero objections, full support of the town and local 'council', fulfilled all criteria in the LDP, but took almost 4 years to get a determination, only achieving a consent with the promise to drop an imminent public inquiry as to the dire performance (lack of) of the MCC planners set for a week later ...
they were facing a £100k bill when they lost (and they would have - not a leg to stand on in support of their negligence) (McC&S win 90% of their inquiries and appeals - only go there if certain of a win)
the current system is farcical - end of

" According to government planning statistics, external, between January and March 2024 only 19% of major applications were determined within the statutory 13-week period and only 38% of minor applications were determined in the statutory eight-week period. "

how the hell did they dream up those levels of figures ... not a cat in hell's chance round here of coming anywhere near those time spans ... utter fairy tales - it just DOESN'T happen :mad:
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
Gov want to build 1.5 million homes by the end of 2029. That's 4 years give or take. 375,000 per year in that period.
In 1968 at arguably the height of the last building boom, we built 416,000 new properties. Of which 226k were built by private firms, 9k housing association and 190k were local authority.
In 2023 we build 189,000 all in. 144k from private firms, 41k HA and 4k LA. and that's not a bad year compared to the last 10, maybe even since 2008.

Problem no1. Its not in private housebuilders interests to build more houses. It dilutes the market and lowers prices - reducing their lovely profit. To be honest, the UK's house builders aren't worth anything as a builder anyway - they don't have any of their own labour force, they are all management businesses who use sub contractors to get the dirty bit of building done. So I cant see them being either willing or able to step up to the plate and achieve these targets.
This could be got around by the Gov making their own development company or empowering LA's to get building again which is how it was in the glory days of 1968. But its a HUGE undertaking getting LA's building 4k properties nationwide!!! to step up to 375k next year and for the following 5 years!!!

Problem no2. Knowing the planning process, schemes of this size and quantity are going to take a couple of years to get through planning, essentially back loading the already steep targets to get to 1.5mil by 2029. Even if they reform the planning system as they rightly should - we aren't going to be building 375k next year. Material suppliers are also going to take some time to ramp up. Remember when all the brick kilns closed in 2009 and we struggled for the next 2 years getting bricks to build even a mediocre number of houses in 2011/2012.

Then we come to problem no3. The labour force - or lack of!
You aren't going to be able to train people fast enough to get them into the industry and productive to really make an impact, although it could help in the later 2028/29 years. So either as tradesmen we become so in demand that our prices can go through the roof. I'm talking big time boom! Cancel your holiday plans, sell that pickup and order yourself that Lambo 4x4 to drive around in - good times are coming baby!
Or more realistically we have another immigration push to bring a workforce in from somewhere else. The Irish did it back in the 50's and 60's, the Polish in the mid 00's. Sadly I think this will suppress our rates rather than raising them with the increased demand.

So when I initially heard about this plan, I thought, ok, could be good news for us in this game. But actually having thought it through, unless you do something that is super rare to find as a skill in other countries (like India or some African nations - they are most likely to be the source of the workforce) or be a manager!

Maybe I'm wrong on this? What do you think?
I am pondering investing in some shares in building material suppliers though - regardless of who is building these houses, they all stand to do quite well. Might be a smart investment?
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Gov want to build 1.5 million homes by the end of 2029. That's 4 years give or take. 375,000 per year in that period.
In 1968 at arguably the height of the last building boom, we built 416,000 new properties. Of which 226k were built by private firms, 9k housing association and 190k were local authority.
In 2023 we build 189,000 all in. 144k from private firms, 41k HA and 4k LA. and that's not a bad year compared to the last 10, maybe even since 2008.

Problem no1. Its not in private housebuilders interests to build more houses. It dilutes the market and lowers prices - reducing their lovely profit. To be honest, the UK's house builders aren't worth anything as a builder anyway - they don't have any of their own labour force, they are all management businesses who use sub contractors to get the dirty bit of building done. So I cant see them being either willing or able to step up to the plate and achieve these targets.
This could be got around by the Gov making their own development company or empowering LA's to get building again which is how it was in the glory days of 1968. But its a HUGE undertaking getting LA's building 4k properties nationwide!!! to step up to 375k next year and for the following 5 years!!!

Problem no2. Knowing the planning process, schemes of this size and quantity are going to take a couple of years to get through planning, essentially back loading the already steep targets to get to 1.5mil by 2029. Even if they reform the planning system as they rightly should - we aren't going to be building 375k next year. Material suppliers are also going to take some time to ramp up. Remember when all the brick kilns closed in 2009 and we struggled for the next 2 years getting bricks to build even a mediocre number of houses in 2011/2012.

Then we come to problem no3. The labour force - or lack of!
You aren't going to be able to train people fast enough to get them into the industry and productive to really make an impact, although it could help in the later 2028/29 years. So either as tradesmen we become so in demand that our prices can go through the roof. I'm talking big time boom! Cancel your holiday plans, sell that pickup and order yourself that Lambo 4x4 to drive around in - good times are coming baby!
Or more realistically we have another immigration push to bring a workforce in from somewhere else. The Irish did it back in the 50's and 60's, the Polish in the mid 00's. Sadly I think this will suppress our rates rather than raising them with the increased demand.

So when I initially heard about this plan, I thought, ok, could be good news for us in this game. But actually having thought it through, unless you do something that is super rare to find as a skill in other countries (like India or some African nations - they are most likely to be the source of the workforce) or be a manager!

Maybe I'm wrong on this? What do you think?
I am pondering investing in some shares in building material suppliers though - regardless of who is building these houses, they all stand to do quite well. Might be a smart investment?
great post (y)
 
Lancs Lad

Lancs Lad

Well-known member
Gov want to build 1.5 million homes by the end of 2029. That's 4 years give or take. 375,000 per year in that period.
In 1968 at arguably the height of the last building boom, we built 416,000 new properties. Of which 226k were built by private firms, 9k housing association and 190k were local authority.
In 2023 we build 189,000 all in. 144k from private firms, 41k HA and 4k LA. and that's not a bad year compared to the last 10, maybe even since 2008.

Problem no1. Its not in private housebuilders interests to build more houses. It dilutes the market and lowers prices - reducing their lovely profit. To be honest, the UK's house builders aren't worth anything as a builder anyway - they don't have any of their own labour force, they are all management businesses who use sub contractors to get the dirty bit of building done. So I cant see them being either willing or able to step up to the plate and achieve these targets.
This could be got around by the Gov making their own development company or empowering LA's to get building again which is how it was in the glory days of 1968. But its a HUGE undertaking getting LA's building 4k properties nationwide!!! to step up to 375k next year and for the following 5 years!!!

Problem no2. Knowing the planning process, schemes of this size and quantity are going to take a couple of years to get through planning, essentially back loading the already steep targets to get to 1.5mil by 2029. Even if they reform the planning system as they rightly should - we aren't going to be building 375k next year. Material suppliers are also going to take some time to ramp up. Remember when all the brick kilns closed in 2009 and we struggled for the next 2 years getting bricks to build even a mediocre number of houses in 2011/2012.

Then we come to problem no3. The labour force - or lack of!
You aren't going to be able to train people fast enough to get them into the industry and productive to really make an impact, although it could help in the later 2028/29 years. So either as tradesmen we become so in demand that our prices can go through the roof. I'm talking big time boom! Cancel your holiday plans, sell that pickup and order yourself that Lambo 4x4 to drive around in - good times are coming baby!
Or more realistically we have another immigration push to bring a workforce in from somewhere else. The Irish did it back in the 50's and 60's, the Polish in the mid 00's. Sadly I think this will suppress our rates rather than raising them with the increased demand.

So when I initially heard about this plan, I thought, ok, could be good news for us in this game. But actually having thought it through, unless you do something that is super rare to find as a skill in other countries (like India or some African nations - they are most likely to be the source of the workforce) or be a manager!

Maybe I'm wrong on this? What do you think?
I am pondering investing in some shares in building material suppliers though - regardless of who is building these houses, they all stand to do quite well. Might be a smart investment?
Great post.
Any viable land how now just taken an uptick in value.
So you piss off farmers make them consider selling up...and then tell them their farm may now be housing value..bingo.

Immigrants....how do you convince Ali in the prius doing just eat to swap it for a shovel in the rain though?

In other musings my patch might now be worth a look at 🤑🤑 unfathomable I'd ever get houses on it years ago...now 😜
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
Immigrants....how do you convince Ali in the prius doing just eat to swap it for a shovel in the rain though?
Ali in his Prius isn't the target audience for labouring. To be fair to him and his family, he has already built a new life for himself and is at least contributing to society. Sadly the concept idea of putting the rubber dingy crews to work is to contentious to actually happen in the modern day.
But look at how Dubai, Qatar and others are building their mega projects. Huge Indian and African labour force, many of which would be happy to work in the UK with our better safety standards and much less productivity expectations.
I cant see how else they are going to achieve this 1.5mil target - its a huge ask!
 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member
Ali in his Prius isn't the target audience for labouring. To be fair to him and his family, he has already built a new life for himself and is at least contributing to society. Sadly the concept idea of putting the rubber dingy crews to work is to contentious to actually happen in the modern day.
But look at how Dubai, Qatar and others are building their mega projects. Huge Indian and African labour force, many of which would be happy to work in the UK with our better safety standards and much less productivity expectations.
I cant see how else they are going to achieve this 1.5mil target - its a huge ask!

The down fall is our quality expectations. Trying to keep some of the eastern Europeans under control is hard enough. I cannot imagine what some of the African and Indians would churn out.
The quality of some of the current big developments is already questionable.
 
Simon edwards

Simon edwards

Well-known member
Excellent post , the sad fact is ignoring the political and bent financial drive behind any perceived property boom,there is no longer any resemblance of a skilled,efficient construction industry left in this country.I have been fortunate to have grown up in a family construction business,surrounded by incredibly skilled,proud hardworking individuals and working on quality projects throughout my career. I have witnessed the sad irreversible decline within this once amazing industry,I obviously still work around the peripherals and am constantly amazed at the attitude and work ethic of majority of the current workforce,many of the gentleman I grew up around and later worked with would never tolerate what is now considered ‘normal’ practice.
On the plus side us old schoolers are never short of work.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
stop pissing about with piddly things and get on and sort the planners

and WTF does she know about planning anyway
probably been gotten at

Smarmers plans are doing well then

:oops::oops::oops:

" the party has billed (this)as the “most ambitious yet honest programme for government in a generation " :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

optimistic (from a bunch of lying tw*ts) ...... " the Labour government’s first five years in power " :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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doobin

doobin

Well-known member
Of course the planning reforms would only help big business.....
No surprises there. Cue drip feeding and developers holding their hands out for Help To Buy 3.0. Cnts.

It sickens me the stranglehold on our young people's future that the big five developers have. Not so much the ones with well off parents or the ones with practical common sense who know better than to even consider a new build. But the average 30's Joe, who can see little option other than a new build with Government 'help'. Condemed to a life of misery due to shoddy workmanship that won't be rectified, shitty social housing neighbours, ever increasing 'service charges' for sweet FA, and a lifetime of debt slavery due to being forced by a rigged market to purchase sub standard shelter at a vastly overinflated price.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
The media are starting to catch on.... 20,000 groundworkers needed apparently. Maybe I'll start a recruitment firm, I get so many messages from India, Iran, Turkey etc of people wanting to work here. I cant see any other way we can meet the targets....
 
S

Smiffy

Well-known member

By reform they mean lowering standards.
If the large house builders lower their standards any further they may as well start erecting tents.
Does anyone know the supposed lifespan of a modern house by companies such as bellway and persimmons.
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
By reform they mean lowering standards.
If the large house builders lower their standards any further they may as well start erecting tents.
Does anyone know the supposed lifespan of a modern house by companies such as bellway and persimmons.
You raise a good point, but its nothing we haven't done before. Remember the pre fab concrete (/Asbestos) houses built in the 50's. Many still standing and in use. Its not perfect but it would help to get the numbers up if indeed that's what has been decided is the best route. A modern way to do it is some kind of modular shipping container type home. Which if it was under £100k wouldn't be a bad place to start in your 20's or where ever you find yourself in life.

Still needs groundwork though!
And what about the infrastructure it connects to, water, sewerage treatment, electricity - all need vast "reforms" too. Its a huge undertaking for the existing workforce. I cant see how we can avoid opening the gates to outside labour.
 
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