K
Komatsu
Well-known member
that makes a lot of sense of the delay for Rob when he was waiting its arrival new .... at the time I couldn't understand the issue, but obviously Engcon had to specially manufacture a hitch under their tilty to match Hydrema's spec. .. hence the delay in arrival .... 'al ist klar ' now ........ still think they're silly buggers though, deviating from the S typeand by such a small amount
It’s known as “Hydrema S-Type”, so because it’s got the “S-Type” no one would know/think any different.
Think silly buggers isa bit light Gra!!, could think of a lot better things to call them!!, wouldn’t be so bad if it was a “different” style to look at, you’d get it, but the fact they look ni-on identical throws a spanner in the works.
None of us were aware of the difference James.
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Yep ....... seems a pretty bloody stupid thing to do Ollie
.... as said, with S type in the name you'd logically assume that it was a standard 'S type' - a universal standard by design .... if it isn't, it's not standard and therefore NOT an S type, as per design stds. ...... bet 'yer dad' is pissed about it
K
Komatsu
Well-known member
Yeh you would, just one of those things, not so bad when you know though, shows it in the bible thoughYep ....... seems a pretty bloody stupid thing to do Ollie
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
and there you have it ...... " Hydrema S type" listed separately ..... wonder what OBF stands for (One Big F**k up)Yeh you would, just one of those things, not so bad when you know though, shows it in the bible though
Think 150 quid a pop for S50 cheeks is bloody robbery
Grahams
Don't complain - suggest what's better
S type seems to be moving away from standardisation which seems silly. I use both S40 and S45 and both of those now have two pin centre options for some unknown reason.
Graham
Graham
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
I would guess it's as they've been made wider Gra and hence 'squarer' which was the main idea, to get away from longer, narrower hangers and have them more 'symetrical' !!
K
Komatsu
Well-known member
Bit of an old photo from when I got my buckets converted, original 60mm set up, with S-type S60 on top.I would guess it's as they've been made wider Gra and hence 'squarer' which was the main idea, to get away from longer, narrower hangers and have them more 'symetrical' !!
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
I'm not in the office today but will check tomorrow. IIRC, Rob borrowed Ollie's grading beam a while back and that fitted his Hydrema hitch, but I don't know that the converse applies. If this is the case,then a Hydrema hitch can pick up S type attachments but not vice versa, so there may be security benefits. In any case, we don't use the term S type when referring to the Hydrema hitch - it's just an Hydrema hitch. As someone (Ollie?) said, the Levellizer has one, but that was built in Denmark. It's (a) standard over there alongside the S type for Engcon, same as the Verachtert (CW) hitch in Holland.
K
Komatsu
Well-known member
That’s correct
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Rob's possibly slightly shorter centres then perhaps
..... his shorter hitch'd go in between std pin ctrs, but a std S type hitch would not then fit between Hydrema's ctrs???? .... if that is the case ................. or could be Rob's (Hydrema) hitch is slightly narrower ? ..... still a bloody silly idea IMHDO
K
Komatsu
Well-known member
It’s not narrower as would pick I could pick up on front pin no issue.
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Gunners
Well-known member
I told you this bucket thing was as confusing as the control systems...
It’s a minefield out there!
It’s a minefield out there!
Left hooker
Well-known member
I think what it boils down to is that yes the s type is a standardized hitch system but it still needs odd ball sizes to suit machines that are different eg: not all the machines in the same weight category are the same weight or have the same dipper width. So what fits one ok might not on another brand till all the machine manufacturers build to a standard weight/ dipper width a standardized hitch system still needs a bit of an odd ball size to cover all bases
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
I'll try and clear this up.
The page out of the RF catalogue that Ollie posted does contain the answers, but unless you speak Scandi, it's not clear. Throughout northern Europe (including the Nordic region) there are several different hitch types and they are not compatible with one another. The S type is now the dominant one in Scandi, and its predecessors (the S1 and S2 - just visible at the bottom of Ollie's graphic) are still around but no longer actively promoted.
The Hydrema hitch is not an S type, but it works in a similar way. It's only available as a 45mm pin and the centres are 100mm further apart at 430mm (it's also marginally narrower). Originally developed for their Backhoes.
Rob's Hydrema (excavator) doesn't have a Hydrema hitch, it has an Engcon S60 type (top and bottom), so Ollie's grading beam will fit it and Rob's buckets should fit Ollie's machine as well. If they don't I'll need to dig further
The catalogue also includes references to other hitch types - Verachtert (CW), Lehnhnof, SMP, Atlas - but there are others (GJ is one). We make tiltrotators with all of these as tiltrotator hitches - as, I believe, do Rototilt in order to satisfy the demands of the markets where these hitches are common.
Whilst writing, I noticed Druid's horror at the prices quoted for adapter brackets I know these are available from various sources and a number of UK companies offer Scandi-style attachments with S-type brackets. BEWARE! The S type standard also is very clear about tolerances:
We have had several Owner Ops call to say that the hitch is not working and won't detach their bucket or other attachment, only to get an Engineer to site and find that the offending attachment has been made out of tolerance and is physically stuck. We ourselves have commissioned 'specials' for trials here in the UK from local manufacturers that have had the same problem. The brackets in this catalogue will (I suspect), have been made on a jig and will fit - others may not.
The page out of the RF catalogue that Ollie posted does contain the answers, but unless you speak Scandi, it's not clear. Throughout northern Europe (including the Nordic region) there are several different hitch types and they are not compatible with one another. The S type is now the dominant one in Scandi, and its predecessors (the S1 and S2 - just visible at the bottom of Ollie's graphic) are still around but no longer actively promoted.
The Hydrema hitch is not an S type, but it works in a similar way. It's only available as a 45mm pin and the centres are 100mm further apart at 430mm (it's also marginally narrower). Originally developed for their Backhoes.
Rob's Hydrema (excavator) doesn't have a Hydrema hitch, it has an Engcon S60 type (top and bottom), so Ollie's grading beam will fit it and Rob's buckets should fit Ollie's machine as well. If they don't I'll need to dig further
The catalogue also includes references to other hitch types - Verachtert (CW), Lehnhnof, SMP, Atlas - but there are others (GJ is one). We make tiltrotators with all of these as tiltrotator hitches - as, I believe, do Rototilt in order to satisfy the demands of the markets where these hitches are common.
Whilst writing, I noticed Druid's horror at the prices quoted for adapter brackets
I know these are available from various sources and a number of UK companies offer Scandi-style attachments with S-type brackets. BEWARE! The S type standard also is very clear about tolerances:We have had several Owner Ops call to say that the hitch is not working and won't detach their bucket or other attachment, only to get an Engineer to site and find that the offending attachment has been made out of tolerance and is physically stuck. We ourselves have commissioned 'specials' for trials here in the UK from local manufacturers that have had the same problem. The brackets in this catalogue will (I suspect), have been made on a jig and will fit - others may not.
CPS
Well-known member
Robert is quite right, the S type bracket works to a very tight tolerance, we have had the same with guy buying buckets etc from local manufactures and told working to the tolerance..... some of them get shitty when you insist that they do exactly as the drawings, only to get told "we have been building buckets for years" Ok you go to site and sort the problem then!!!
I like to think we ourselves have got the s type bracket down to a T now..... if nothing else but from learning from mistakes.
Yes Rototilt do offer a wide range of hitch options to suit various markets around the world, a trip around the factory really shows the options they have....... just don,t ask my opinion on the dutch CW hitch
Interesting about the Hydrema hitch, I have seen it on option lists but took it to be an option for a top bracket, you learn something everyday.
Ok you go to site and sort the problem then!!!I like to think we ourselves have got the s type bracket down to a T now..... if nothing else but from learning from mistakes.
Yes Rototilt do offer a wide range of hitch options to suit various markets around the world, a trip around the factory really shows the options they have....... just don,t ask my opinion on the dutch CW hitch
Interesting about the Hydrema hitch, I have seen it on option lists but took it to be an option for a top bracket, you learn something everyday.
Engcon UK
The Noble Art of Digging
Sorry - I missed this one earlier
The hitch is, after all, a means of (quickly) connecting the dipper to the bucket or other attachment. Each (digger) manufacturer has a different geometry for the end of the dipper (dipper width, pin size and pin centre) and this varies from digger to digger within a single manufacturer's programme, usually according to weight. Some manufacturers try and standardise within a range - for example the dipper geometry on a 86c, 3CX, 4CX and Hydradig (and others) is the same but will be different to the equivalent offerings from Takeuchi, CAT and so on. The S type standard is a laudable attempt to simplify everything that is south of the hitch, but we still have to make the top of the hitch fit the individual dipper.
In some cases it is possible to have a particular hitch in each weight range that will fit other diggers with shims and/or bosses so that if you want to take your tilty with you it's a relatively cheaper option - Volvo or Case tend to be wide enough to fit most dippers.
Rest assured, every hitch manufacturer would love for all of the digger makers to standardise their dipper geometries, but I'm not holding my breath.
Robert
V8Druid
do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
get it right or go home !!!!I'll try and clear this up.
The page out of the RF catalogue that Ollie posted does contain the answers, but unless you speak Scandi, it's not clear. Throughout northern Europe (including the Nordic region) there are several different hitch types and they are not compatible with one another. The S type is now the dominant one in Scandi, and its predecessors (the S1 and S2 - just visible at the bottom of Ollie's graphic) are still around but no longer actively promoted.
The Hydrema hitch is not an S type, but it works in a similar way. It's only available as a 45mm pin and the centres are 100mm further apart at 430mm (it's also marginally narrower). Originally developed for their Backhoes.
Rob's Hydrema (excavator) doesn't have a Hydrema hitch, it has an Engcon S60 type (top and bottom), so Ollie's grading beam will fit it and Rob's buckets should fit Ollie's machine as well. If they don't I'll need to dig further
The catalogue also includes references to other hitch types - Verachtert (CW), Lehnhnof, SMP, Atlas - but there are others (GJ is one). We make tiltrotators with all of these as tiltrotator hitches - as, I believe, do Rototilt in order to satisfy the demands of the markets where these hitches are common.
Whilst writing, I noticed Druid's horror at the prices quoted for adapter brackets
View attachment 2801
View attachment 2802
We have had several Owner Ops call to say that the hitch is not working and won't detach their bucket or other attachment, only to get an Engineer to site and find that the offending attachment has been made out of tolerance and is physically stuck. We ourselves have commissioned 'specials' for trials here in the UK from local manufacturers that have had the same problem. The brackets in this catalogue will (I suspect), have been made on a jig and will fit - others may not.
..... the drawings detail all the tolerances and any fabricator worth their salt should be able to reproduce a perfect copy to those spec.s ..... they're a piss easy piece of work ..... interesting comment on Rob's hitches ... recalled him saying they were Engcon S type when he was buying the MX and was surprised that Ollie said they weren't
..... wonder what the issue is stopping him from picking up Rob's att.s??
.... oil coupling positions perhaps ... wouldn't need to be a lot as for prices Robert ..... 150 quid for a pair of S 50 cheeks and pins is taking the piss ... especially when they are obviously made in such quantity and as you say .. jig built .... some one, somewhere, has got one hell of a mark up on them
maybe 250-300% over cost as for the dipper size debate, etc. I've one of your S50 hitches sat here, with the shim-able, interchangeable bosses ... think it's an RFS 50 ... and although shim-able and one can change the bosses to suit differing pins .... pin centres are the biggest issue, as they are fixed .... without some judicious gas axe treatment and lug/cheek modifications.
I bought it to lop up to go under me VA-r
... can't bring myself to do it ... it's as good as brand new ... came with 50mm bosses IIRC and I picked up a set of 70mm bosses off ebay, for a very good price ... but as said ..... the pin ctr.s are way too close together ...... for me ..... it'll get 'looked at' when I've a spare hour, sometime ..... very nicely made though 
Hydremaduck
Active member
Well all I can say is I wish to f**k somebody had asked me!
Engcon Q Safe EC-Oil quick hitch fitted to dipper.
The reason it took a while was because the machine was supplied with an old style S60 hitch which I decided to change.
Engcon didn't have a Q-Safe EC-Oil on the shelf so it had to be made.
The EC219 underneath it got the EC-Oil blocks bolted on top and the bottom hitch got a JCC upgrade to tick the bullshit twin lock box.
As a result the bottom tongue on that hitch is longer which prevents me picking up some buckets in reverse.
My 800mm bucket supplied by HYDREMA is out of tolerance, would not fit my machine originally until we took an angle grinder to it and will not fit Ollie's machine.
Engcon Q Safe EC-Oil quick hitch fitted to dipper.
The reason it took a while was because the machine was supplied with an old style S60 hitch which I decided to change.
Engcon didn't have a Q-Safe EC-Oil on the shelf so it had to be made.
The EC219 underneath it got the EC-Oil blocks bolted on top and the bottom hitch got a JCC upgrade to tick the bullshit twin lock box.
As a result the bottom tongue on that hitch is longer which prevents me picking up some buckets in reverse.
My 800mm bucket supplied by HYDREMA is out of tolerance, would not fit my machine originally until we took an angle grinder to it and will not fit Ollie's machine.
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