Batteries 😶😶

[Quattromike]

Got 4 number JCB 729 batteries in various plant 2 of which are ancient and start said plant each time of asking, have done for multiple years a d still going strong. The other two with recent batteries (one less than a year the other just over a year) always give trouble. I'm just away to get a new battery in one today. What gives, is it the plant just draining ever so slowly or not charging enough it not everyday plant and can sit for a few weeks between starts. Has an isolator on the cable aswell but still pulls it down. Or is the quality issues with recent JCB batteries?

 

[craig]

Multi meter job.
Check the charge rates. if that`s good, check the isolator is cleanly breaking, had one a couple of months back even with the isolator off, it was still making a contact, enough to run the batteries down.
If all`s good I`d be looking at a different brand of batteries, Varta have been good in the past, but they have different qualities, identified buy the top colour and price!

 

[Jimbo69]

Are the older batteries in older plant and vice versa?

 

[JD450A]

New batteries are s**t.... Particularly Avon.

 

[Quattromike]

Are the older batteries in older plant and vice versa?

Much and suck, tractor and loadall are both 96 and keep their batteries well for months at a time, digger and dumper are I think 08 and 06 and after a week sitting with a full charge won't start, or even turn over. To start with a jump start get them going but after a while of that even the jump start takes a 20mins of charging before she'll go.
Put new battery in the digger today and bang into life at first turn of the key

 

[Grahams]

Newer batteries are weird. I had two completely fail without warning last year. Everything working fine, no issues starting then wham, completely dead, won't accept any charge.

 

[Jimbo69]

A JCB fitter once told me that the batteries now last about 5 years and that’s about right in my experience, the last few I’ve replaced have been about that age. Newer batteries never seem to be the same once they’ve been completely flat either for some reason.

 

[V8Druid]

Newer batteries are weird. I had two completely fail without warning last year. Everything working fine, no issues starting then wham, completely dead, won't accept any charge.

not unusual these days ..... had three fail like that last year - Vartas ... fine one minute lead weights the next ... two not very old either - couple of months ... got a couple of 'old' Vartas still going strong at 15 yrs old ... quality is not what it was - end of
i understand it has a lot to do with the space under the cells that governs battery life ... salts build up in the voids and at a particular level short the cells ... STBC

 

[Quattromike]

A JCB fitter once told me that the batteries now last about 5 years and that’s about right in my experience, the last few I’ve replaced have been about that age. Newer batteries never seem to be the same once they’ve been completely flat either for some reason.

Current one in the old terex benford is under a year old and dead flat not even ignition lights, had the charger on it for most of last week but nowt in it

 

[V8Druid]

Current one in the old terex benford is under a year old and dead flat not even ignition lights, had the charger on it for most of last week but nowt in it

weigh it back into the suppliers ... that's crap

 

[Tacitus]

I don't know what batteries you have in the UK, but down under, you can buy a $150 battery or a $300 battery, the same size wet battery, yet one is 300 CCA, the other 800CCA, Then there are calcium one and gel. There are very ordinary brands and much better ones. I had very good experience with Delkor with a pair in my boat going for 12 years.
The longevity of batteries depends on charge. I have a medium size diesel generator for emergency, that gets used once a month if that, yet the battery is connected to a solar panel and is always fully charged.
Dual batteries present an extra challenge. If one battery starts failing, it drags the other down, very important to have a solenoid connecting both batteries that disconnects when it is turned off.
With excavators working the engine mostly at moderate revs and stop and start, charge the battery with an external charger fully at least once a week, if you want to avoid problems, or better still, have a trickle charger next to where you park the machine and plug it in every day.
With batteries, you get what you pay for, plus research the brand, some can be expensive duds.
Battery manufacturers, give you a hint with the extent of their warranty. 12 month warranty and you know you have a disposable one. 36 month starts to get into the reasonable quality.

 

[JD450A]

Not being funny but anyone that suggests batteries need to sit on maintainer chargers needs a f****ng slap. Also no disrespect intended @Tacitus but I don't agree with the solenoid nonsense for 24v dual systems. Manufacturers don't do so..... Most 24v systems get f***ed by the addition of 12v equipment setup on a single battery rather than fitting a correct transformer.

 

[Tacitus]

Maintenance charge by a solar panel or trickle charger must include a regulator or better a smart charger that stops and charges and can be left attached to the battery indefinitely. Zero risk of overcharging. A plant battery chronically undercharged, will underperform one that gets a full charge at least once a week. Dual battery systems don't need to disconnect batteries from one another providing they are at the same level of performance. Once one starts going downhill it drags the other down. Manufacturers don't give a toss about battery longevity, it is the user that needs to work with the system in order to maximise the life of the battery. The alternative is to keep changing batteries and complain.
As for your suggestion of a slap, I find your post disrespectful and suggest you edit it.

 

[V8Druid]

a battery sat alone, isolated form any circuit should hold good, if the battery itself is in good condition and fully charged ... as soon as it gets something across it, it has the potential to drain .. my genny has a maintenance charger built into it from new Rory, so when it's needed it will start.. other wise its battery needs to be isolated to eliminate any potential to drain

agree that a 12v item connected across only one battery in a 24v series-ed set up is a battery killer ... needs a proprietary dropper unit to share the load across the 24v system and if summat is going to stand for long an isolator is the best method of hopefully ensuring it'll start when you next come to use it ... (or drop the neg lead off)

 

[Lancs Lad]

Interesting thread, battery guy told me that worst thing for batteries is draining them flat af.
Must admit I've been very impressed with the yellow top I bought for winch, thing just keeps going and going

 

[V8Druid]

Maintenance charge by a solar panel or trickle charger must include a regulator or better a smart charger that stops and charges and can be left attached to the battery indefinitely. Zero risk of overcharging. A plant battery chronically undercharged, will underperform one that gets a full charge at least once a week. Dual battery systems don't need to disconnect batteries from one another providing they are at the same level of performance. Once one starts going downhill it drags the other down. Manufacturers don't give a toss about battery longevity, it is the user that needs to work with the system in order to maximise the life of the battery. The alternative is to keep changing batteries and complain.
As for your suggestion of a slap, I find your post disrespectful and suggest you edit it.

think this is a first on here .... can't recall anyone asking for a post edit before ...... 's just Rory, @Tacitus ... he's known for his forthrightness ... don't be offended, it won't be personal with him ... his avatar is pretty accurate

 

[Quattromike]

Can you damage a battery leaving the trickle charger on too long?

 

[Bri963]

Interesting thread, battery guy told me that worst thing for batteries is draining them flat af.
Must admit I've been very impressed with the yellow top I bought for winch, thing just keeps going and going

He told you right, as you’d expect being a battery specialist. An absolutely flat battery can heat its plates up considerably when charging to the extent that the plates can distort. Running them a bit low isn’t really a problem, the Old theory was that the extra charge cleaned the plates. I wouldn’t put my name against it as a maintenance strategy.

We have one machine that’s nearly twenty years old and still has it’s original Cat batteries. Don’t know about new Cat batteries, obviously haven’t had time to find out, but we’ve got several that are closer to ten years than five years old and going strong. Come to think of it, the little Yuasa on my own Kubota is over eight years old and still okay.

 

[pettsy]

Can you damage a battery leaving the trickle charger on too long?

I seem to remember the trickle charger I’ve got is “smart” so knows when to stop charging, and will then maintain it at a healthy level.

 

[Quattromike]

I seem to remember the trickle charger I’ve got is “smart” so knows when to stop charging, and will then maintain it at a healthy level.

Have got a smart charger at work that's meant to also have a regen cycle that can bring a battery back from the brink. Doesn't work on old dead batteries but have used it on the odd battery. The one I have here is just a dumb trickle charge, it might not be good for poor condition batteries