Sandhill Plant

[doobin]

At the end of the day if someone is paying £800 in rent and can get a mortgage on the same place for £750 with no deposit the banks should give it to them regardless of what they earn. If they have been paying the rent i cant see a problem.

That's a great policy, which I've often considered myself.

I would slightly disagree being in the position of buying my first house 2 years ago at 26

It is not as impossible to save a deposit as a lot of people my age make out. The problem is you have to work hard and and spend sensibly.
That is what my generation actually struggle with. The amount of people I know that say they can't afford a house whilst having a financed Merc and a wardrobe full of Desiigner clothes is unreal.

I agree in principle, however would you have been able to save an extra 30k in the year on top of what you were already saving to cover the increase of a starter house in just one year? 30k is a whole years average wage here. and we are talking about starter houses- far from the average prices for Sussex- 460k.

I'm assuming you worked very hard and also have not gone out and bought a three bedroom detatched. Wouldn't it be nice if your hard work was actual;ly rewarded, so you could actually afford a house slightly better? As it stands, the 60 year old postman is living in a three bedroom detatched house in the country, whilst the modern high fliers earning well above average wages are in shitty new build estates and have been conned into thinking they're doing well!

Anecdotally, I have never been on a new build estate that hasn't had two German cars (no doubt on contract rental, not purchase) on the driveways of most houses! These, however, are the same people who thought 'help to buy' on a property valued at over 400k as a starter house was a good thing. Presumably they never stopped to wonder why Persimmon's profits went up by 49k per house in the same year a 50k help to buy was introduced.

We have to stop kicking the can down the road at some point.

My counter to that is that a house price crash will effect the young more than the old. House price crashes tend to lead to lower consumer spending which fuels the unemployment. This being more so in the younger generation than the middle generation. As for saving for deposits. We have fuelled a boom in new house prices with the government help to buy scheme. I won’t go into the rant about buy to let as you are probably not up to date with the latest tax rules. Buy to let is no easy get rich scheme. As for repatriation. I am afraid that you are deluded to thing that will happen in today’s society!! National socialism may have a future but hopefully not in the manner you portray!

I am up to date with the latest landlord tax rules, hence my bracketed stipulation about these rules actually being enforced! I can't see any way out of this other than a crash. The average young person would be better off unemployed than working a full week just to have a litttle left over after paying the landlord. Work needs to be rewarded, as I alluded to above. Should a crash occur, it would be nice to see a return to a more meritocratic society, whereby people like us who take a risk in life and start a business are rewarded with a slightly better standard of life.

As for immigration- I can't see how anyone can claim that free immigration doesn't drag down the living standards of everyone except the richest business owners. Lorry drivers are currently in demand, for example, and celebrating increased wages. Had we not had unrestricted immigration from the EU for the last decade, wages might still have been at a sensible level already, rather than basically minimum wage for a lot of responsibility.

 

[fred]

dont forget small landlords now operate at a loss. You cannot claim mortgage costs against your rent anymore so you are losing money.

This rule doesnt apply to ltd company landlords though.

 

[doobin]

dont forget small landlords now operate at a loss. You cannot claim mortgage costs against your rent anymore so you are losing money.

This rule doesnt apply to ltd company landlords though.

If they were actually operating at a loss, they'd sell up. As it is, the tenant is buying the house for them, and with property prices increasing at an average 5% a year for the last ten, it's a nice little earner.

 

[Jimoz]

I don't think a housing crash is what starts everything off. As has been said it's something else which blindsides everyone and effects employment, inflation or whatever which in turn puts pressure on house prices. Anyone who thinks the economy isn't cyclical is in for a nasty shock. Gordon Brown famously said it before 08.

@TiltyShaun what's the score with your house prices per m2 then you reckon stuff is going below 100k? Are they shoeboxes? You wouldn't get anything freehold here for less than 100k.

 

[Jimoz]

 

[Smiffy]

That's a great policy, which I've often considered myself.


I agree in principle, however would you have been able to save an extra 30k in the year on top of what you were already saving to cover the increase of a starter house in just one year? 30k is a whole years average wage here. and we are talking about starter houses- far from the average prices for Sussex- 460k.

I'm assuming you worked very hard and also have not gone out and bought a three bedroom detatched. ,

Whilst it's not detached it is still 3 double bedrooms.
It's a 1970 council house and we have done a lot of work to it, we wouldn't touch a new build.
And as I'm sure your aware being localish to me it's not exactly a cheap area I live in.
And whilst I couldn't afford 30k in a year that's only a small extra deposit and 3 extra years on the mortgage which is long enough as it is.

People just need to have realistic expectations of there lifestyle if they want a house.
My generation seem to have very little idea of value for money, when they think a shiney car on pcp is the most important thing

 

[pettsy]

My generation all want £££ but don’t want to work to get it. My parents saved for years and helped me out when I was buying my first house a couple of years ago. I’ve worked since I was 16, inc fri/sat nights when they were all out on the town. They’ll have the newest of everything on finance but then can’t afford to put more than £20 of fuel in their car Fortunately I was bought up with “if you can’t afford something you save until you can” which has served me well (excluding mortgages obviously)

 

[doobin]

Whilst it's not detached it is still 3 double bedrooms.
It's a 1970 council house and we have done a lot of work to it, we wouldn't touch a new build.
And as I'm sure your aware being localish to me it's not exactly a cheap area I live in.
And whilst I couldn't afford 30k in a year that's only a small extra deposit and 3 extra years on the mortgage which is long enough as it is.

People just need to have realistic expectations of there lifestyle if they want a house.
My generation seem to have very little idea of value for money, when they think a shiney car on pcp is the most important thing

30k isn't just 'a small extra deposit'- it's a wacking great chunk of money. And you're missing the point- you said yourself that you couldn't afford to save it in a year. So what do you do when it goes up by another 15k the next year (the standard 5% increase we have had for the last ten years)?

Saying 'it's just another three years on the mortgage' again misses the point. Not that long ago 20 years was normal. Then 25. Then 30. Now 35. What next, lifetime mortgages? Inter-generational mortgages?

We need a crash so that this current generation can have the same chances the last generation did.

The current generation will have to work themselves to the bone just to acheive the same standard of living (especially in their later years) as a postman from the previous generation.

 

[Smiffy]

30k isn't just 'a small extra deposit'- it's a wacking great chunk of money. And you're missing the point- you said yourself that you couldn't afford to save it in a year. So what do you do when it goes up by another 15k the next year (the standard 5% increase we have had for the last ten years)?

Saying 'it's just another three years on the mortgage' again misses the point. Not that long ago 20 years was normal. Then 25. Then 30. Now 35. What next, lifetime mortgages? Inter-generational mortgages?

We need a crash so that this current generation can have the same chances the last generation did.

The current generation will have to work themselves to the bone just to acheive the same standard of living (especially in their later years) as a postman from the previous generation.

I'm not sure If Miss understand you but 30k price rise means you need 10% of that in terms of deposit ??
And we saved far above the deposit required so we could buy a house that needed work and afford to do the work.
And I do know other people my age that have done it, just not many. As most would rather complain than put the work in.
And I dont think generations are as easily comparable food and holidays are far cheaper so lifestyles are different. Not many of the previous generation expected a new car and 3 holidays a year.

 

[doobin]

I'm not sure If Miss understand you but 30k price rise means you need 10% of that in terms of deposit ??
And we saved far above the deposit required so we could buy a house that needed work and afford to do the work.
And I do know other people my age that have done it, just not many. As most would rather complain than put the work in.
And I dont think generations are as easily comparable food and holidays are far cheaper so lifestyles are different. Not many of the previous generation expected a new car and 3 holidays a year.

The trouble with the 30k increase is that almost every first time buyer is already at the max of mortgage lending criteria.

 

[Smiffy]

The trouble with the 30k increase is that almost every first time buyer is already at the max of mortgage lending criteria.

If people are working hard it's not as hard as you would think for a couple,fair enough you would struggle to do it by yourself but house prices are nowhere near as bigger obstacle as people make out, if people work hard and don't fritter their money it is doable, people need to lower their expectations, I don't think people should get any help until they help themselves, and often find that the people complaining about house prices are the same ones wanting free uni fees and the like.

 

[Gunners]

I agree with @Smiffy I've also bought a house in the last 3 years, a semi detached 3 bed with garage. I had no help from parents, but I did do it with someone else - on your own would have been impossible. But we are both self employed which made things a little more interesting.
I sold all my toys, didn't go on holiday for 3 years, went back to driving the old landrover, worked 6/7 days a week, didn't eat out, didn't buy anything I didn't need, no fancy clothes etc and lived mainly on a diet of toast and baked beans. But it worked, saved £30k each in around 18 months. That's on a 30k/year income each and paying £1200 in rent each month. So it is doable you just have to be committed. We now pay £850/month in mortgage and are both so much better off each month. I've bought all my toys back again and live on more than just baked beans now.

We did do the help to buy and to be honest its my biggest regret as they lend you 20% of the value of your house. Sounds great doesn't it, less mortgage to negotiate, free money for 5 years at 0% interest (no I don't think Bobcat run the scheme )The problem with it is you have to pay back 20% of the value of your house taken at the time you decide to pay it off - which currently means a lot more than I borrowed. After 5 years you start paying interest on it, and if your property keeps going up - you might never be able to pay it off unless you sell up! We are currently back on the no holidays, limited fun regime trying to pay it off ASAP, I see it as a very dangerous loan.

I have many friends in their early 30's who have been renting for ages, moaning about how hard it is to buy, many have had inheritance money they have wasted, all have shiny new German cars on the drive, many now have kids too. Apparently it was easy for me... I think they forget how many times they called me to go out drinking etc and I was working.... Times up boys, better get your heads down.

 

[GazCro]

Too many these days think they deserve everything handed to them simple as. Tbh from listening to older folk its always been similar, it may be slightly worse now but not as much as folk think.

 

[Jimoz]

The elephant in the room is in that picture I posted. @Gunners there's times when the house you bought would of been more like 4.5 earnings ie 145k today's money.
Low interest rates just ease affordability which pushes up prices. Help to buy is the same. No government intervention ever saves money.
Stamp duty holiday case in point.

 

[fred]

If they were actually operating at a loss, they'd sell up. As it is, the tenant is buying the house for them, and with property prices increasing at an average 5% a year for the last ten, it's a nice little earner.

how do you sell up when the government banned evictions ?

tenant stops paying rent, tough.

tenant wrecks the place, tough.

the days of clover are well and truely gone. I like a few friends have a couple renters as a pension as you get fook all working for yourself. Would love a final salary pension like the public sector gets that we pay for.

 

[fred]

The trouble with the 30k increase is that almost every first time buyer is already at the max of mortgage lending criteria.

first time buyer gets lots of help from the gov, help to buy, lifetime ISA etc. They can and do get on the ladder but have to be realistic. I cant see the problem for saving for 3 years to get a 20k deposit or like normally happens bank of mum and dad help out.

wishing for a crash would help no one least of all first time buyers.

 

[Smiffy]

The elephant in the room is in that picture I posted. @Gunners there's times when the house you bought would of been more like 4.5 earnings ie 145k today's money.

Only part of the story though as other things have gone down substantially. Food is cheap holidays are cheap cars are cheap.

My dad spent many years in my childhood working day and night shifts to pay the mortgage.

 

[fred]

Only part of the story though as other things have gone down substantially. Food is cheap holidays are cheap cars are cheap.

My dad spent many years in my childhood working day and night shifts to pay the mortgage.

id just started work, YTS at 78p an hour and the gaffer was moaning his mortgage had trebled when the rates hit 13%

managed to run the RD125LC to get to work, go out on the piss fri, sat and sun and still have a bit left. no idea how!

 

[Jimoz]

I've done the Saturday Sunday shifts plenty of times in my 20s like you lot that's how I saved for my first plot. I'm not just sitting here moaning but you've got to be realistic 10% per year helps nobody in the long run. It might make you feel good if you've recently bought. Not sure cars are cheap it's just more that money is cheap so finance is affordable. Wouldn't be as many new motors on the road if boe interest rates were 6%

 

[GazCro]

Might sound daft but money has a different value to people. Most of us on here are self employed/ in charge of our own ship and seem largely of the view that if you can't afford something you wait until you can. Obviously with property that's not entirely feasible and the same with bigger machinery purchases but that's where mortgages and finance come in but we weigh these up as to how best to spread cost out and keep a bit back for rainy days without saddling ourselves paying it off till we die. Large percentage of people now young and old included simply look at cost per month. Doesn't matter what makes up that cost as long as wages can cover it it's game on. Nothing spare for if anything goes wrong just borrow borrow borrow. Ok until the sh*t hits the fan which now and again it does.

If you wonder why finance is cheap its because the banks and govt want everyone using it. Better for the economy to keep it on the move not at in anyones ar*e pocket.