Surrounded by fire!

[Gecko]

In the '80's, we were being warned of a mini-iceage
(unrelated to the more recent and debunked theory's predicting a mini-iceage)

There was the Roman Warm Period that lasted 150 years

There was the medieval warm period that lasted 150~300 years

There was another that peeked about 8000 years ago that is believed to have warmed the north pole 4° C

 

[V8Druid]

I've always been sceptical how quick police forces are to blame arsonists. I realise it does happen but they seem to say it with such surety. Would an idiot with an angle grinder be classed as an arsonist, just a stupid accident surely.

well it would be if he burnt his house/shed/workshop to the ground doing it ... should be one he would go to great lengths to avoid .. unless a complete idiot.
the same precautions should realistically be taken outdoors ... especially living in a bonfire waiting to happen .... due care and diligence should be the watch words of anyone in that situation ..... you wouldn't grind over, or at a bucket of petrol .... and is effectively the same thing but on a much worse scale

 

[V8Druid]

In the '80's, we were being warned of a mini-iceage
(unrelated to the more recent and debunked theory's predicting a mini-iceage)

There was the Roman Warm Period that lasted 150 years

There was the medieval warm period that lasted 150~300 years

There was another that peeked about 8000 years ago that is believed to have warmed the north pole 4° C

we live on an unstable and constantly changing, evolving lump of rock floating in space .....
we haven't even been here long enough for the proverbial blink of an eye and our 'written history' can already document the above events .....
there will, without doubt, be many many more ... if we survive long enough to document those too

 

[AusDave]

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. However the facts and data speak for themselves with regard to climate change.
Although scientists and other researchers can't be specific about every little event with regard to climate change, when you get such massive change over a range of climate related factors in such a short period of time, without the intervention of an asteroid or massive volcanism, human induced change is the factor which explains the changes in climatic conditions.

In Australia we span a lot of latitude and longitude so changes in everything from the annual monsoon up north to rainfall for agricultural cropping areas down south all have seen changes. There is a a lot of history which can be determined by the archaeological/geological record. You can look through sediments going back thousands and tens of thousands of years and determine events and their relationship to climate. ie. Massive volcano eruptions leave a layer of ash in the geological record as can massive fire events. No previous historical events of fire events like we are experiencing exists to my knowledge.
Rainforests which require hundreds of thousands of years to evolve, and couldn't do so if there was a fire, are now burning to ash. Even the ocean is dying off the coast of Australia. Kelp forests which have evolved over aeons off the southern coasts off Tasmania have died out because the ocean temperature has risen to high too quickly for them to evolve and survive.

Fish which have been confined to tropical waters thousands of kms north of me are now being seen where I kitesurf. And of course thousands of sq kilometres of coral on the Great Barrier Reef has died due to excessively high ocean temperatures. Don't forget as well that higher CO2 concentrations in the ocean make it more acidic, so many species of plankton, the base of the ocean food chain, have their calciferous exoskeletons weakened substantially making their growth much more difficult.
Today temperature records were broken again after being broken less than a month ago and these high temperatures mean every organic material in the landscape can burn incredibly easily and now is.

The examples go on and on. Sure you can cherry pick isolated items from the historic and current record to justify some form of climate denialism, but they can't compare with the climate changes we are seeing in real time. Sure there have been climate changes in the past, even before humankind. But when they happened, they happened over geological time, not over mere decades as is happening now. The natural world can't adapt so quickly.

 

[Jimoz]

Having lived there I always find aussies to think they live in the best country in the world. Do you think these hot conditions (not necessarily fire) will make them question that

 

[AusDave]

I've always been sceptical how quick police forces are to blame arsonists. I realise it does happen but they seem to say it with such surety. Would an idiot with an angle grinder be classed as an arsonist, just a stupid accident surely.

In Australia unfortunately we have too many arsonists who like the drama of a bushfire or are bored kids on holiday with a packet of matches. Many are caught and convicted and the fire services here have a pretty effective team who know the difference between a natural event starting a fire and an arsonist.

An idiot with and angle grinder using it outside a closed safe environment on a day of Total Fire Ban can be convicted of starting a fire the same as if he walked out side and threw a lit match into dry forest. The law is very clear and when there is a Total Fire Ban or very high temperatures even farming activity can be stopped. Headers harvesting a field of wheat must stop if fire conditions are extreme. It only takes a hot failed bearing to drop a red hot fragment onto a dry field and you have your fire. Ditto a spark from a slasher hitting a rock can do the same.

Penalties for being an idiot with an angle grinder on a Total Fire Ban day range from an on the spot fine of $2200 or if the matter goes to court $5500 and/or 12 months gaol. Quite a few lives have been lost due to inappropriate use of angle grinders/welders on Fire Ban days.

 

[AusDave]

Having lived there I always find aussies to think they live in the best country in the world. Do you think these hot conditions (not necessarily fire) will make them question that

It depends. Aussies are mainly an urban people, Australia is much more urbanised than the UK. They mainly live in the city and suburbs and a hot day can mean going from an air conditioned house/apartment to an air conditioned car/public transport to work in some air conditioned building. So unless someone turns the electricity off it's not such a big deal. When not at work it's always cooler at the beach, and most Aussies live on the coastal fringe. Virtually none are the outback, Crocodile Dundee stereotype you may see in films and advertising. The majority are soft city folk.
Many Aussies look at the British climate and wonder how it is possible to enjoy life in such cold, wet and miserable conditions where the sun can be unseen for long periods of time. (Myself included.)

I do by choice live in a very nice part of Australia where I am on the coast and the temperature is moderated by the sea. It's not often over 30°C and not often under 15°C. My hot water is heated free by the sun for about 350 days a year lately and my solar panels reduce my electricity bill substantially. I grow fruit & veggies year round and have winter jackets I haven't used for decades.
However living inland in Australia is becoming a challenge now, it's hotter (record breaking),drier, (also record breaking and this year some major towns and cities are likely to completely run out of water) and this makes the economics of living there challenging. Especially as a farmer if its your fourth year of drought and you've got no stock left, and all the crops have failed every year.

I must admit to liking the summer and the long days. I can work at the cooler parts of the days and go to the beach when it's hot. Australia could be better, as can anywhere, but it's pretty damn good for me

 

[V8Druid]

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. ........

agreed Dave ... and no one is disagreeing that we may be making a small contribution .... to what could well be a natural cyclical event .... the examples cited above were not on a geological time scale and would've slowed at the same pace as they occurred ... in all probability ... we are just better observers now, BUT.... also far to quick to apportion blame/cause/probability ........ it is all speculative .... no one really knows how our "pretty blue planet" works ..... they're all best guessing ..... at best

 

[Komatsu]

I won't disagree with the fact that the climate is changing ...... but just how much of it is a natural cycle? .....
more than enough historical evidence to support previous drastic changes .... it's happened before and will happen again ..... just that we are here to observe it.
it's just been seen as a great excuse to tax the s**t out of the world .... they'd run out of other successful ways of screwing the populous

Some of it might be natural cycle Gra, but in the past that has been over 100’s/1000’s of years, and something that none of us would of witnessed....I know your old, but your not that old.......so the fact that we are getting to witness it is not really the best. There have been massive changes in just the last 10 years, so who knows what it’s going to be like in the next 10...not good I’d say and one WE WILL be observing......one thing I will be pretty sure on though,... is that we’ll be talking about it on this thread no doubt.

 

[V8Druid]

Some of it might be natural cycle Gra, but in the past that has been over 100’s/1000’s of years, and something that none of us would of witnessed....I know your old, but your not that old.......so the fact that we are getting to witness it is not really the best. There have been massive changes in just the last 10 years, so who knows what it’s going to be like in the next 10...not good I’d say and one WE WILL be observing......one thing I will be pretty sure on though,... is that we’ll be talking about it on this thread no doubt.

old enough to recall significant changes in cycles and seasons though Oll

when I was a little kid we had definite and proper seasons .... even as a teenager and my twenties we had summers, autumns, winters, etc. .... these days it's possible to get all four in a week ... a day even sometimes ..... yes things are changing .... but there is no conclusive, substantive, irrefutable evidence to confirm it is all man's doing .... and for every 'scientist' that says it is, there are dozens disagreeing with the hypothesis
we are only ever fed what governments want us to hear .....
Anyone recall when we had the massive eruption that grounded aircraft around the world for several days ? .....
was a tiny little 'news item' on one of the tv channels .. only ever aired once, (that I saw anyway) ... and I caught it ... about the possibility/opinions of several eminent scientists that the earth's axis had quite possibly been altered by a minuscule amount, by it ... and that it too would have ramifications ... never heard another word uttered about it .. and try finding anything
All sorts of things have and will continue to contribute to natural change .... as said ... " we live on an unstable and constantly changing, evolving lump of rock floating in space ... " ... and our homes are floating on a vast sea of Magma ... constantly trying to escape ..... a big enough 'escape' event could finish us all ... possibly even the planet ...... we just don't know ... all we can do is best guess

 

[Bri963]

no one really knows how our "pretty blue planet" works ..... they're all best guessing ..... at best

ah, Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough do...how dare you question their wisdom?

So does the Extinction Rebellion genius who brought one of the greenest urban transport systems, the Tube, to a halt.

 

[V8Druid]

ah, Greta Thunberg and David Attenborough do...how dare you question their wisdom?

So does the Extinction Rebellion genius who brought one of the greenest urban transport systems, the Tube, to a halt.

you mean Sharon !!

 

[BertB.]

Ffs are you for reel Bert or you been drinking

Yup absolutely hammered Ollie!! Sorry for having an opinion of my own!

 

[Komatsu]

Yup absolutely hammered Ollie!! Sorry for having an opinion of my own!

That ok Trump

 

[BertB.]

That ok Trump

Ok Eurotrash

 

[Komatsu]

Ok Eurotrash

 

[Quattromike]

Well I just hope everyone manages to stay safe, buildings and towns can be rebuilt and replaced, freinds and family can't .

 

[V8Druid]

Aye ..... " there but for the grace of ..... "
no matter what opinions are ... it's a bloody awful situation to be in .... hope you all come out the other side safe

 

[AusDave]

The doubts about climate change in this country are rapidly changing as the country burns to a crisp.

What I can't understand about climate denialism is if aircraft engineers told you the plane you were about to board had a 95% chance of crashing would you ignore them and continue your flight?
Whereas if over 95% of climate related scientists, agricultural scientists and everyone else who is credibly qualified to have knowledge on this matter says that not only is climate change happening but situations like we are facing in Australia are evidence, why would you argue with them???

We spent Saturday at our property damping it down as the sky filled with smoke and ash, tractor, pumps and tanks at the ready. Water sprinklers on the house roof, chooks free to run, we waited with the radio on giving live updates and checking the fire map on our phones. The tenant at our property who said he was going to stay and protect his stuff there, lost his nerve, packed his vehicle and headed off to a regional evacuation centre. So it was just Christine and myself.

Fortunately due to a beneficial wind direction and some previous burns between us and the fire front the fire went around us inland and headed north to wreak havoc on those areas. It is expected to keep going until it reaches the other massive fire north of us. This will result in a fire hundreds of km long and with a perimeter length of between 15,000 to 20,000 kilometres. Currently there are over 180 fires in our state with approx. half out of control.

The state to the south of us also now has declared a state of emergency as fires have already consumed approx one million hectares there. These fires have jumped the border into our state with the fires advancing north to connect up with our existing fires. I've attached pics of the fire status of both states.
There are other states on fire as well including an island.

 

[Jimoz]

Nobodies denying climate change. Just specifically that humans are causing climate change.
You wouldn't get on the plane in your scenario but if you as an individual change your activities it's not going to stop climate change.
We're getting to the point in this country where things are being dumbed down to comply, diesels will soon be banned from city centres or increased tariffs. I think aussies have one of highest per person co2 rates?