TipperTowing without o licence

[Russell]

Can you tow over 750kg with a 3.5 ton tipper van like a mits canter, isuzu grafter, nissan cabstar without an o licence if you dont go beyond 60 mile raidus?
I forget their term but what is a multi purpose vehicle? Does it have to be a lard rover or crew cab pickup to meet the exemption?

 

[Monkeybusiness]

If it’s not for hire and reward then yes.

 

[Stroppymonkey]

Others know more, but as far as I am aware I can tow upto 3500kg behind an appropriate work van (vehicle and trailer weights and train weights aside) within 100k if it’s our own goods and materials and not for hire or reward and NOT the drivers main job.
If the trailer has a net weight over 1020kg (or something like that ) then not exempt unless behind a DPV (dual purpose vehicle)

@JD450A usually able to advise ?

 

[Lancs Lad]

Done to death elsewhere but from the horses mouth :

Tachographs: rules for drivers and operators

Who needs to use a tachograph and exemptions; digital and analogue tachographs; guidance for goods vehicles, passenger carrying vehicles (PCVs) and light vehicles

www.gov.uk

 

[Stroppymonkey]

Devil is in the details.

This Vosa link explains it better - there is a specific page of expemption of the Gov. site somewhere but didn't have time to find it. It is a bloody nightmare trying to run a business using vans and trailers and staying on the right side of the rules and regulations.

https://www.diamonddrivertraining.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/small-trailer-leaflet.pdf

 

[DaveDCB]

Tangent - how do you go on if your doing a one off trip to say go pick something up from another part of the country?

 

[Monkeybusiness]

Tangent - how do you go on if your doing a one off trip to say go pick something up from another part of the country?

A mate got done for exactly that collecting a new self-propelled post knocker from down south. He got a chunky fine from what I remember. (I think it was at the weekend too, as he was worried about being overloaded - they didn’t even weigh him!).

 

[Stroppymonkey]

A mate got done for exactly that collecting a new self-propelled post knocker from down south. He got a chunky fine from what I remember. (I think it was at the weekend too, as he was worried about being overloaded - they didn’t even weigh him!).

What was he driving?

 

[Monkeybusiness]

What was he driving?

I’ll find out - I think an Iveco daily and trailer.

 

[Stroppymonkey]

I’ll find out - I think an Iveco daily and trailer.

This is why I have a pick up with rear passenger seats (DPV) . I am also about to get a towbar fitted to my camper so I can widen my area to satisfy my marketplace addictions.... but I need to clarify the rules on that as its still registered as a van.... but clearly a camper and not in a company name.

 

[JD450A]

You don't need a O licence for use domestically in the UK for that combination unless your trailer is made of lead. For reference concrete pumps, compressors, generators etc come under mobile plant anyway but should a knob get penicity if the lighting is affixed to the trailer chassis and the plant can be lifted off (whether it's bolted down or not) then the trailer chassis is the trailer.... The plant becomes a load.

You can go whatever radius you like within the UK without O licence with a 3.5t or less towing vehicle dragging a trailer...... However tachograph laws and driving hours are a different kettle of fish.

With regards to one of trips to pick stuff up as a sole trader.... It's not earning you money doing the trip, the item is not yet commissioned into your fleet and it would be unviable to run a tachograph for the journey once a year..... Opt for common sense approach and IF it becomes a problem be prepared to argue in court..... FYI I stop for breaks in that regard, take time stamped photos and write it down when needed. Whilst tachographs are a "legal requirement" the key laws are around EU drivers hours breaks.

 

[Brendan]

You don't need a O licence for use domestically in the UK for that combination unless your trailer is made of lead. For reference concrete pumps, compressors, generators etc come under mobile plant anyway but should a knob get penicity if the lighting is affixed to the trailer chassis and the plant can be lifted off (whether it's bolted down or not) then the trailer chassis is the trailer.... The plant becomes a load.

You can go whatever radius you like within the UK without O licence with a 3.5t or less towing vehicle dragging a trailer...... However tachograph laws and driving hours are a different kettle of fish.

With regards to one of trips to pick stuff up as a sole trader.... It's not earning you money doing the trip, the item is not yet commissioned into your fleet and it would be unviable to run a tachograph for the journey once a year..... Opt for common sense approach and IF it becomes a problem be prepared to argue in court..... FYI I stop for breaks in that regard, take time stamped photos and write it down when needed. Whilst tachographs are a "legal requirement" the key laws are around EU drivers hours breaks.

Bjt tippers over 10' are over 1020kg unladen so technically need an o license unless towed by dpv or 4x4.

@Stroppymonkey doublecab pickups are only classed as dpv if they weigh under 2040kg unladen, there isn't may that can legally tow 3.5t that are still under that weight new vehicle wise I think it's just the dmax, older vehicles would be l200, Navara, 2014 ranger but only XL trim, lower trim amaroks etc

 

[Stroppymonkey]

Bjt tippers over 10' are over 1020kg unladen so technically need an o license unless towed by dpv or 4x4.

@Stroppymonkey doublecab pickups are only classed as dpv if they weigh under 2040kg unladen, there isn't may that can legally tow 3.5t that are still under that weight new vehicle wise I think it's just the dmax, older vehicles would be l200, Navara, 2014 ranger but only XL trim, lower trim amaroks etc

Yes my 65plate Dmax is base spec and under 2040kg with 1000kg payload and 3500kg trailer weight.
Horrible to tow with though and the back seats are s**t!
My crane trailer is over (probably double) the 1020kg hence owning the Dmax .
I spent a bit of time going through all this with the high powers back in 20/21 and have forgotten the details

 

[V8Druid]

This is why I have a pick up with rear passenger seats (DPV) . I am also about to get a towbar fitted to my camper so I can widen my area to satisfy my marketplace addictions.... but I need to clarify the rules on that as its still registered as a van.... but clearly a camper and not in a company name.

more importantly ... how is it insured? ... getting it re-categorised with DVLA can be a minefield apparently

 

[V8Druid]

P38s are 2031kg in theory - not sure if that includes a spare wheel ... mine is well over that with two 40ltr LPG tanks on board

 

[Stroppymonkey]

more importantly ... how is it insured? ... getting it re-categorised with DVLA can be a minefield apparently

As a converted camper with agreed value. Needs 7 photos sent in every year on renewal otherwise it’s book value

 

[Stroppymonkey]

Bjt tippers over 10' are over 1020kg unladen so technically need an o license unless towed by dpv or 4x4.

@Stroppymonkey doublecab pickups are only classed as dpv if they weigh under 2040kg unladen, there isn't may that can legally tow 3.5t that are still under that weight new vehicle wise I think it's just the dmax, older vehicles would be l200, Navara, 2014 ranger but only XL trim, lower trim amaroks etc

Doesn’t DPV mean it must be 4WD also? Hang on. Just re read my own link above. So it can be 4WD (disco commercial or single cab pickup?) OR a crew cab/glazed van.


I still say, this part of the legislation is excessively over complicated and there needs to be a simple flow chart. (Probably there is?) or an App which helps people figure this s**t out .

 

[Brendan]

Doesn’t DPV mean it must be 4WD also? Hang on. Just re read my own link above. So it can be 4WD (disco commercial or single cab pickup?) OR a crew cab/glazed van.


I still say, this part of the legislation is excessively over complicated and there needs to be a simple flow chart. (Probably there is?) or an App which helps people figure this s**t out .

If it can't power all wheels there is other requirements about minimum glass size, cargo to seats and other bits

 

[Brendan]

Problem with a lot of the road rules, they are just too old. When they were written majority of dpv would have been way under the weight but all the safety standards and ever increasing size of vehicles make them obsolete.

 

[Monkeybusiness]

He was driving an Isuzu D-Max double cab with Ifor williams trailer carrying his brand new Protech tracked knocker from the manufacturer back to base.
He got a £350 fine, no points.