Your thoughts now on Tiltrotators.

Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
They do, your just not asking the right questions.
Actually, thinking about it, Engcon might not do one now (in this country at least) But Rototilt and I see above from @APhillips, Steelwrist, certainly do.

On the subject of control systems, they are expensive, especially on the smaller machines pro rata. But dual aux's cost money too, which goes some way to reducing that cost. And there are some advantages, even on the smallest machines, to having one. Which for some people wont be worth the cost, but for others, it will.
There is no right or wrong tiltrotator build - whatever suits your budget and work is right for you.
I realise I'm starting to sound like LGPEddie did 10 years ago... I didn't have one back then. And now I do, I sort of understand where he was coming from.
Interesting that the conversation hasn't really moved on much with the humble tiltrotator though. And most innovation I see with them is to do with making them easier to install rather than more functionality. Although mic4 and openS are interesting standards that would make life a lot easier for us all.
But those of you without control systems wouldn't be interested in that :LOL:
you know more than me about tiltys and by some margin but surely its hard to justify a full fat on a mini digger with no ecoil or gripper anyhow ?
 
Storrsy

Storrsy

Well-known member
They’re still not offering a basic four pipe for a 9 tonner.

This one is a 4 pipe- no control system? How would you run a grab through it though if all existing services are used up by the tilt/rotate. Would the tilt be divereted for the grabbing instead?
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better

This one is a 4 pipe- no control system? How would you run a grab through it though if all existing services are used up by the tilt/rotate. Would the tilt be divereted for the grabbing instead?
could only run a grab under it, full 360, if it has a min. 4 gallery rotary coupling through the unit and use the tilt circuit to divert to it with a 6x2 diverter
IIRC I put that up a few weeks ago ... McCleans are a very reputable bunch (y)
 
Storrsy

Storrsy

Well-known member
could only run a grab under it, full 360, if it has a min. 4 gallery rotary coupling through the unit and use the tilt circuit to divert to it with a 6x2 diverter
IIRC I put that up a few weeks ago ... McCleans are a very reputable bunch (y)
Have you ever been to their yard- holy cow that's some business they've built up there!
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
Have you ever been to their yard- holy cow that's some business they've built up there!
sadly not ...@Peteduck from the old CEF used to put up a fair bit about them and knew them well ... was gonna go there to look at a machine, pre-'Drema purchase, but it sold very quickly .. understand they are a good outfit to deal with
 
Storrsy

Storrsy

Well-known member
sadly not ...@Peteduck from the old CEF used to put up a fair bit about them and knew them well ... was gonna go there to look at a machine, pre-'Drema purchase, but it sold very quickly .. understand they are a good outfit to deal with
Been up there a few times in the last year trying to help a mate find a 13 tonner. It's a bit like arriving at Heathrow airport🤣,
Customer bought blind a tracked dumper off them recently (I'm annoyed I recommended it to him and it's mint wish I'd kept it to myself ! 🤦) but there was a small electric problem when it turned up McLean's were quite prepared to send a fitter down to sort it out- can't fault that!
 
doobin

doobin

Well-known member
you know more than me about tiltys and by some margin but surely its hard to justify a full fat on a mini digger with no ecoil or gripper anyhow ?
Didn't stop that muppet EMYH telling everyone it was the only way.

A control system is basically spunking £12k up the wall on a 2.7t digger. The cost of four pipes is negligable- lots come as standard nowadays. Why do you want any more complicated electrics to break?
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
Didn't stop that muppet EMYH telling everyone it was the only way.

A control system is basically spunking £12k up the wall on a 2.7t digger. The cost of four pipes is negligable- lots come as standard nowadays. Why do you want any more complicated electrics to break?
It adds around £6k to the cost of the install last time I checked not 12? How do you work it out to be that much? As Druid has just mentioned above regarding that ET90 for sale, the most basic tiltrotator wont allow you to run a grab, or have a hydraulic hitch under it. But it is a cheap way to get into tilting and rotating IF your machine is setup to run it on proportional joysticks. Engcon are doing these basic EC02's for £5/6k now I believe, direct mount.
The 4 pipe with option to switch grab to tilt and the 6 pipe setup, giving you a hydraulic hitch are a bit more expensive, and to be honest, having not got a quote recently, I dont know what the cost difference is on an EC02 for comparisons sake, against a basic 4 pipe, posh 4 pipe, a 6 pipe, and a full DC2 setup. But I suspect that if you bought a basic spec machine and went the DC2 route, vs buying a high spec machine but fitting a more cost efficient 6 pipe system - I doubt there would be much in it?
Maybe we should do the maths on this if anyone has some recent quotes. It would be interesting to know actually, and I could be totally wrong on this.
 
doobin

doobin

Well-known member
It adds around £6k to the cost of the install last time I checked not 12? How do you work it out to be that much? As Druid has just mentioned above regarding that ET90 for sale, the most basic tiltrotator wont allow you to run a grab, or have a hydraulic hitch under it. But it is a cheap way to get into tilting and rotating IF your machine is setup to run it on proportional joysticks. Engcon are doing these basic EC02's for £5/6k now I believe, direct mount.
The 4 pipe with option to switch grab to tilt and the 6 pipe setup, giving you a hydraulic hitch are a bit more expensive, and to be honest, having not got a quote recently, I dont know what the cost difference is on an EC02 for comparisons sake, against a basic 4 pipe, posh 4 pipe, a 6 pipe, and a full DC2 setup. But I suspect that if you bought a basic spec machine and went the DC2 route, vs buying a high spec machine but fitting a more cost efficient 6 pipe system - I doubt there would be much in it?
Maybe we should do the maths on this if anyone has some recent quotes. It would be interesting to know actually, and I could be totally wrong on this.
Maybe the 12k was for a control system on a 9 ton, been a while since i priced one.

Even if it's 6k, that's way more than it would cost to get a machine with twin aux. Twin aux is around £1k on a lot of popular machines, such as the Develon DX27 or the Yanmar SV26. Six pipe system all you need to pay Engcon for is the hydraulic hitch underneath and a gallery through the rotary joint. The rest is easy DIY pipework.

£5-6k I would have to see to believe, I thought it was more like £7k for a basic EC02. £5k is pretty much a no brainer.

I would always budget for a top hitch on a mini digger, they want to be off as much as they are on. No use whatsoever for breaker, ripper, bulking, deep trenching etc.
 
Vinpetrol

Vinpetrol

Well-known member
It adds around £6k to the cost of the install last time I checked not 12? How do you work it out to be that much? As Druid has just mentioned above regarding that ET90 for sale, the most basic tiltrotator wont allow you to run a grab, or have a hydraulic hitch under it. But it is a cheap way to get into tilting and rotating IF your machine is setup to run it on proportional joysticks. Engcon are doing these basic EC02's for £5/6k now I believe, direct mount.
The 4 pipe with option to switch grab to tilt and the 6 pipe setup, giving you a hydraulic hitch are a bit more expensive, and to be honest, having not got a quote recently, I dont know what the cost difference is on an EC02 for comparisons sake, against a basic 4 pipe, posh 4 pipe, a 6 pipe, and a full DC2 setup. But I suspect that if you bought a basic spec machine and went the DC2 route, vs buying a high spec machine but fitting a more cost efficient 6 pipe system - I doubt there would be much in it?
Maybe we should do the maths on this if anyone has some recent quotes. It would be interesting to know actually, and I could be totally wrong on this.
You can run a grab with a very basic changeover valve if you absolutely need one on your mini . I’ve got that set up on my duck and I have a couple long hoses for the grab but I recently took a house down with mine and it’s no issue at all .
Also I just bought this
IMG_9915.jpeg



IMG_9914.jpeg

I paid the extra to have 4 pipe set up and quick hitch lines . There were other extras as well , I think it was heavier counter weight and better hydraulic pump and auto idle but I think the lot came to 2k so maybe 1K for additional hydraulics . That’s paying for it as an added extra but as doobin is right enough a lot of machines are coming specced that way standard . The other advantage is if you want to use the additional aux lines running something else you can throw the engcon off and still have that option .
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
You can run a grab with a very basic changeover valve if you absolutely need one on your mini . I’ve got that set up on my duck and I have a couple long hoses for the grab but I recently took a house down with mine and it’s no issue at all .
Also I just bought thisView attachment 80312


View attachment 80313
I paid the extra to have 4 pipe set up and quick hitch lines . There were other extras as well , I think it was heavier counter weight and better hydraulic pump and auto idle but I think the lot came to 2k so maybe 1K for additional hydraulics . That’s paying for it as an added extra but as doobin is right enough a lot of machines are coming specced that way standard . The other advantage is if you want to use the additional aux lines running something else you can throw the engcon off and still have that option .
like rotating grab/grapple
 
Gunners

Gunners

Well-known member
You can run a grab with a very basic changeover valve if you absolutely need one on your mini . I’ve got that set up on my duck and I have a couple long hoses for the grab but I recently took a house down with mine and it’s no issue at all .
Also I just bought thisView attachment 80312


View attachment 80313
I paid the extra to have 4 pipe set up and quick hitch lines . There were other extras as well , I think it was heavier counter weight and better hydraulic pump and auto idle but I think the lot came to 2k so maybe 1K for additional hydraulics . That’s paying for it as an added extra but as doobin is right enough a lot of machines are coming specced that way standard . The other advantage is if you want to use the additional aux lines running something else you can throw the engcon off and still have that option .
That's a really nice looking machine. There's actually a new Volvo dealer in my area now so I'll be looking at them for my next mini for sure.
 
Storrsy

Storrsy

Well-known member
My only experience of a grab on an engcon was that bobcat I looked at but I couldn't believe how slow the rotate was on the grab going through the tilty. Plus the bulk of it all- definitely nicer to have a dedicated grab but perhaps on bigger machines it becomes less of a problem
 
Storrsy

Storrsy

Well-known member
You can run a grab with a very basic changeover valve if you absolutely need one on your mini . I’ve got that set up on my duck and I have a couple long hoses for the grab but I recently took a house down with mine and it’s no issue at all .
Also I just bought thisView attachment 80312


View attachment 80313
I paid the extra to have 4 pipe set up and quick hitch lines . There were other extras as well , I think it was heavier counter weight and better hydraulic pump and auto idle but I think the lot came to 2k so maybe 1K for additional hydraulics . That’s paying for it as an added extra but as doobin is right enough a lot of machines are coming specced that way standard . The other advantage is if you want to use the additional aux lines running something else you can throw the engcon off and still have that option .
Same idea as my Wacker. I had it all specced so could add a 4/6p tilty for it down the line. Of course now I've done that I'm too tight to part with £7k! But it may happen.
 
V8Druid

V8Druid

do it as well as you can,but learn to do it better
My only experience of a grab on an engcon was that bobcat I looked at but I couldn't believe how slow the rotate was on the grab going through the tilty. Plus the bulk of it all- definitely nicer to have a dedicated grab but perhaps on bigger machines it becomes less of a problem
the grab's rotate was being powered through the engcon? :unsure::unsure:o_O- what powered the grab's open / close
 
Storrsy

Storrsy

Well-known member
You can run a grab with a very basic changeover valve if you absolutely need one on your mini . I’ve got that set up on my duck and I have a couple long hoses for the grab but I recently took a house down with mine and it’s no issue at all .
Also I just bought thisView attachment 80312


View attachment 80313
I paid the extra to have 4 pipe set up and quick hitch lines . There were other extras as well , I think it was heavier counter weight and better hydraulic pump and auto idle but I think the lot came to 2k so maybe 1K for additional hydraulics . That’s paying for it as an added extra but as doobin is right enough a lot of machines are coming specced that way standard . The other advantage is if you want to use the additional aux lines running something else you can throw the engcon off and still have that option .
What is the weight of the engcon on that?
 
Storrsy

Storrsy

Well-known member
You can run a grab with a very basic changeover valve if you absolutely need one on your mini . I’ve got that set up on my duck and I have a couple long hoses for the grab but I recently took a house down with mine and it’s no issue at all .
Also I just bought thisView attachment 80312


View attachment 80313
I paid the extra to have 4 pipe set up and quick hitch lines . There were other extras as well , I think it was heavier counter weight and better hydraulic pump and auto idle but I think the lot came to 2k so maybe 1K for additional hydraulics . That’s paying for it as an added extra but as doobin is right enough a lot of machines are coming specced that way standard . The other advantage is if you want to use the additional aux lines running something else you can throw the engcon off and still have that option .
That's not a short dipper is it? Guessing its not a problem
 
Furniss

Furniss

Well-known member
agreed I bought that nice grab from cps but its gone - it was a wierd thing to use under a sandwich tilty tbh - i make the gripper do my bits and its gone
 
Top