hand start dumper

[Ian M]

Hi all I have a Thwaites 2.5 ton dumper with a 2 cylinder petter hand start engine, It starts really easy with a tow but I just can not get it to start with the handle, even if I have it running for a bit I can not restart it by hand, I had a cement mixer with a single cylinder lister engine and that used to start really easy by hand, with the dumper when I try to start itit just stops instantly when I put the compression on, I get some white smoke but does not try to fire, I wander if it is a timming problem I have diesel at both injectors and am moving the link over to get more fuel for starting, any ideas advice most welcome

 

[V8Druid]

Hi all I have a Thwaites 2.5 ton dumper with a 2 cylinder petter hand start engine, It starts really easy with a tow but I just can not get it to start with the handle, even if I have it running for a bit I can not restart it by hand, I had a cement mixer with a single cylinder lister engine and that used to start really easy by hand, with the dumper when I try to start itit just stops instantly when I put the compression on, I get some white smoke but does not try to fire, I wander if it is a timming problem I have diesel at both injectors and am moving the link over to get more fuel for starting, any ideas advice most welcome

any idea what model it is and which way does it swing? You have to get those Petters swinging over well, before dropping the de-comp.s in usually. I have an Alligator and she can be a bit of a handful sometimes.

not mine ... but an Alligator ... they're thin on the ground

 

[Grifferr]

I had an alligator like that back in the 80s.
It was hard to start but I made it easier by putting two inches into the length of swing in the handle. A bit more leverage helps

 

[Ian M]

any idea what model it is and which way does it swing? You have to get those Petters swinging over well, before dropping the de-comp.s in usually. I have an Alligator and she can be a bit of a handful sometimes.

not mine ... but an Alligator ... they're thin on the ground
View attachment 10702

Hi I think it is a thwaites 6000 or what ever came before that not sure of age but engine is behind seat not next to it as in the alligator

 

[Shovelhands]

Any chance of a picture?

 

[JD450A]

They are hateful. PH2 Petter engine bags of s**t IMHO.

You can get conversion kits to electric start on ebay for around £900.

 

[Ian M]

Any chance of a picture?

I will try and take one and get it posted

 

[craig]

any idea what model it is and which way does it swing? You have to get those Petters swinging over well, before dropping the de-comp.s in usually. I have an Alligator and she can be a bit of a handful sometimes.

not mine ... but an Alligator ... they're thin on the ground
View attachment 10702

I had a fork lift based on one of them, called a lee magnum dump stack, as @Grifferr was saying the starting handle had been modified.
With the counter weight on the back you where a bit further away to drop the de-compressor, plus it always started better on the front cylinder, I used to some times put a bit of rope on the de-compressor leaver to make it easier to reach, or pull it back with your foot to drop it, enabling you to keep it spinning a little bit longer, and it started fine no mater the weather.
I used to drop the leaver within a couple of turns of the handle, whether it made a difference? not filling the cylinders with fuel? or me tiring and slowing down on the spin?

 

[Ian M]

They are hateful. PH2 Petter engine bags of s**t IMHO.

You can get conversion kits to electric start on ebay for around £900.

It might come to that but like the idea of hand start if I can get it to work,,if I have to tow it first thing to get it going I can live with if I have to leave it running all day because it will not restart then will be a pain, I can not work out why it starts so easy with a tow but nothing with the handle, if I changed the decompression so I could compress one cylinder at a time could I get one cylinder running and then use that to start the second?

 

[V8Druid]

I had an alligator like that back in the 80s.
It was hard to start but I made it easier by putting two inches into the length of swing in the handle. A bit more leverage helps

the thing that gets me is the anti-clock crank .... just doesn't feel right and reaching the de-comps is a nightmare ... needs someone else to throw 'em and it's a much easier start then

 

[V8Druid]

They are hateful. PH2 Petter engine bags of s**t IMHO.

You can get conversion kits to electric start on ebay for around £900.

always found 'em decent motors Rory ... run great ... once you start 'em ... and mine starts fine with someone else on the de-comps ... just difficult to keep swinging it and reaching 'em

 

[V8Druid]

I had a fork lift based on one of them, called a lee magnum dump stack, as @Grifferr was saying the starting handle had been modified.
With the counter weight on the back you where a bit further away to drop the de-compressor, plus it always started better on the front cylinder, I used to some times put a bit of rope on the de-compressor leaver to make it easier to reach, or pull it back with your foot to drop it, enabling you to keep it spinning a little bit longer, and it started fine no mater the weather.
I used to drop the leaver within a couple of turns of the handle, whether it made a difference? not filling the cylinders with fuel? or me tiring and slowing down on the spin?

you just need to get 'em up to speed ...
mine had the skip when I had it and used it a lot as a dumper ...
it's currently got a Tico 3t loader crane sat on it ... and I have a fork mast to fit it too ... both adapted to fit the skip mounts and pinned on ....


made it a bigger oil tank to cope with the fork mast


the mast and crane on, just for shifting it about

.. too much with both on and the crane's in the way of the tilt ram (skip tip ram) for the mast.
need to sort the plumbing on it, to finish it off ...

 

[fred]

It might come to that but like the idea of hand start if I can get it to work,,if I have to tow it first thing to get it going I can live with if I have to leave it running all day because it will not restart then will be a pain, I can not work out why it starts so easy with a tow but nothing with the handle, if I changed the decompression so I could compress one cylinder at a time could I get one cylinder running and then use that to start the second?

What about using an impact gun to start it ?

 

[craig]

It might come to that but like the idea of hand start if I can get it to work,,if I have to tow it first thing to get it going I can live with if I have to leave it running all day because it will not restart then will be a pain, I can not work out why it starts so easy with a tow but nothing with the handle, if I changed the decompression so I could compress one cylinder at a time could I get one cylinder running and then use that to start the second?

Mine used to start on one cylinder, then I would drop the second cylinder leaver.

 

[V8Druid]

Mine used to start on one cylinder, then I would drop the second cylinder leaver.

mine are linked .. but interesting idea ... could look at disconnecting 'em ... while since I looked at it and can't recall how they're connected

 

[Shovelhands]

It might come to that but like the idea of hand start if I can get it to work,,if I have to tow it first thing to get it going I can live with if I have to leave it running all day because it will not restart then will be a pain, I can not work out why it starts so easy with a tow but nothing with the handle, if I changed the decompression so I could compress one cylinder at a time could I get one cylinder running and then use that to start the second?

Yes, firing one cylinder first will help, you can possibly maintain some speed in the crank with the handle while one cylinder gets going.
we don’t have any of our Lister decompressors connected, they are all electric start anyway, but if you find yourself trying to start one with a low battery, being able to fire just one cylinder can be the difference between getting going or fetching a jump pack, or trying to find a starting handle!

 

[Stubota86]

Hi all I have a Thwaites 2.5 ton dumper with a 2 cylinder petter hand start engine, It starts really easy with a tow but I just can not get it to start with the handle, even if I have it running for a bit I can not restart it by hand, I had a cement mixer with a single cylinder lister engine and that used to start really easy by hand, with the dumper when I try to start itit just stops instantly when I put the compression on, I get some white smoke but does not try to fire, I wander if it is a timming problem I have diesel at both injectors and am moving the link over to get more fuel for starting, any ideas advice most welcome

Does it have any sort of primer mechanism or cold start on it?

 

[Canal Navvy]

I wonder if some joker has turned the pawl in the starter handle round and you're trying to start it backwards

 

[V8Druid]

Does it have any sort of primer mechanism or cold start on it?

has an over-fuel setting on the rack for cold starting.....slide the rack beyond flat out by swinging the stop block aside from the stop.

best image I can find on't 'net

swing the brass bit with the bolt stop in it aside to allow it to open fully for cold starting

 

[V8Druid]

I wonder if some joker has turned the pawl in the starter handle round and you're trying to start it backwards

if it's an Alligator like mine, it's a conventional starter handle with a pin through the shaft, with a self ejecting driven dog ... will only crank the one way.
not like a conventional Petter starting handle on the crank ... the dog is a good 2 feet in from the rear frame of the dumper's body/chassis
if it's a conventional 'on the crank, reversible handle check to see which way it rotates after it's been tow started ... or put it in first and wind the handle to check it goes forward with the decomps set or could be chasing it down the yard if it started by some miracle